How can God ensure that His teachings are given correctly? Is that what you are asking me? Are you saying that God cannot enfluence the contents of a teaching?
Under my understanding of Catholic free will, God can certainly influence the intellect to give correct teaching. However, God CANNOT ensure that it will actually happen because free will, in Catholicism, can always override what God wants. So, God can give the best advice in the world, which He always does, but there can be no guarantee that the correct teaching will actually be given by a priest or bishop, or anyone else, because free will is ALWAYS a wildcard.
FK: "...but I do think that when it came to the Bible, there was a different standard. Men are capable of error, and so I believe that the Bible was effectively taken out of the hands of man to ensure its inerrancy."
What makes you think that? What evidence do you have to make such a presumption?
It's the same as above. In Catholicism, men always have the freedom to do whatever they want, for or against God. I can't believe God left it to chance that all the authors of the Bible would never choose to ignore His grace on what to write. So, I think it makes sense, that for something as important as His word to His Church, that He would eliminate all possibility of error. And God's foreknowledge is of no help here, because you would still have to believe in an amazing freak of luck that no author strayed, seeing as how "hands-off" you believe God is.
What I am saying is that our human nature's brain cannot understand transubstantiation. As Christ said, it takes the Spirit coming to man and giving supernatural faith from the Father to believe in the Eucharist.
OK, I see what you're saying.
[FK responding to JK:] He tells them to persevere because that is part of the salvation model revealed in scripture, and that is part of the human experience. (We all experience choosing to persevere.) He also tells them that none of His sheep will be lost.
You are not answering the question... How does God expect man to persevere if man cannot do ANYTHING, even when empowered by God?
I could be misunderstanding this question, but I'll try. God does not expect any of His elect to persevere on his own, and He does not expect any of the non-elect to persevere at all. God expects all of His elect to obey, and He gives all of them the necessary tools to do so. Nevertheless, sometimes the elect choose to disobey. This breaks God's wish, and is sin, but it doesn't break God's expectation, since He already knew and expected that the person was going to sin at that moment.
Whenever the elect "choose" to do good, then it is God working through them, and on all of those occasions, the person does not choose to disobey. So, perhaps we are using different meanings of the word "expect". Speaking only about myself, since I do not believe in a deeds-based salvation model, I do not believe God "expects" the elect to perform "X" number of good deeds to merit salvation. Perseverance comes completely from God, so with every good deed I do, I, personally, get 0 points in meeting God's expectations.
God foresees our perseverance. We don't. That is why we don't know we are of the elect. It makes no sense that God will ask the "elect" to persevere - to be on guard. This is a senseless command if man cannot do anything.
It's a perfect revelation of God's will, and therefore a wonderful teaching tool to seekers. It's also a reminder to us that God DOES care whether and how often we choose to sin. These are exactly the types of passages that remind me that, even though I believe I am saved, that I CANNOT go back to a life of unchecked sin. This is what these verses are for! :) Man can choose to sin, so these types of verses help him to not choose to do so.
God COULD have set up a system where He chooses His elect, lets them know it, and then doesn't care whether they ever sin again or not. If the Bible was silent on the issue, I might come to this conclusion. Thank God the Bible is not silent at all, He gives us His will that we are to persevere. So now I know.
IF we persevere, salvation is ours, and we were the elect all along. IF we DO NOT persevere, we were one of those who said "Lord, Lord" - and Jesus will respond "I never knew you". Think on that...
I don't put the burden on my shoulders to perform to such and such a level. God already says He will take the burden for us.
The Bible is NOT the "literal" word of God! Does the Bible say that anywhere? God works through mediators - throughout history. He inspired men to write the Scriptures.
We must disagree on what "literal" literally means. :) What do you think of this verse? :
Matt. 5:18 : I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
The "every jot and tittle" verse. The "Law" that Jesus was referring to was the Law found plainly in the scriptures. Here, was Jesus submitting Himself to the work of men? I can't believe that He is. Rather, He is submitting Himself to the "literal" word of God, down to the last jot and tittle. I don't believe that imperfect men could come up with something that Jesus seems to think is THAT perfect.
This is an example of how God speaks through a human writer. If woman speak in church, then they go against the "literal" word of God! Is God's Word unchanging or not?
God's "literal" word was intended to be interpreted at times. Jesus tells us that. God knows that humans relate well to stories which incorporate things familiar to us. He knows that method works, so He uses it. It's how He built us. For the same reason there is a lot of repetition in the Bible. God knows that works too. It makes perfect sense and helps us in our sanctification. He literally intended to include some allegory, so some of His literal words are literal allegory.
My sarcasm meter is pegging right now... We don't believe that man can "always" override what God wants. We believe that God permits man to have evil thoughts, to sin. But He certainly is not denied the ability to intervene when He sees fit. Don't confuse free will with some power that man has over God. It is a gift that God gives.
I can't believe God left it to chance that all the authors of the Bible would never choose to ignore His grace on what to write.
Again, you are forgeting God's foresight. He sees everything before it happens in time - and KNOWS what is necessary to happen for His will to be done. He knows what events must occur for a man to choose "x" - if that is God's desire.
And God's foreknowledge is of no help here, because you would still have to believe in an amazing freak of luck that no author strayed, seeing as how "hands-off" you believe God is.
How is that? Did I say that man wrote the Bible without any help from God? Did He not inspire it? I am saying that the Bible is a combination of man and God. God did not use man as some sort of puppet, placing man in a trance to move his hand! God wouldn't need man at all if that is the way God planned to give the Scriptures. Why would He need man at ALL to write the Scriptures? God decided to involve man in writing the Scriptures - that much should be obvious. Thus, man's literary genre, style, methods, and knowledge are included within the Bible.
I do not believe God "expects" the elect to perform "X" number of good deeds to merit salvation.
Whoopie, we agree on something...
Perseverance comes completely from God, so with every good deed I do, I, personally, get 0 points in meeting God's expectations.
Everything comes from God. But man is expected to DO something! Thus, man is a secondary cause of his actions. EVERYWHERE in the Gospels, man is asked, pleaded with, given a choice - to believe or not. Certainly, man does not do this alone. Man is given grace to respond to God. Perseverance is not an empty request from God. It DEPENDS on man's cooperation. Faith is not only something given by God to men, it is a RESPONSE to God's grace. Faith ALSO depends on man.
It's a perfect revelation of God's will, and therefore a wonderful teaching tool to seekers. Sorry, it is wishful thinking, not in compliance with Scriptures. God's promises are for those who persevere - from our point of view. NO ONE is given automatic eternal salvation for turning to Christ in one night - while failing to respond in faith to Christ's presence. If one refuses to obey Christ's commandments, the Spirit is not within that person. He will not be saved in the end without this abiding presence.
Thank God the Bible is not silent at all, He gives us His will that we are to persevere
God doesn't say that YOU will persevere. Only His elect. Being regenerate does NOT mean you are of the elect.
I don't put the burden on my shoulders to perform to such and such a level. God already says He will take the burden for us.
God says His burden is light and easy. He doesn't say He "takes it away".
The "every jot and tittle" verse. The "Law" that Jesus was referring to was the Law found plainly in the scriptures. Here, was Jesus submitting Himself to the work of men? I can't believe that He is. Rather, He is submitting Himself to the "literal" word of God, down to the last jot and tittle. I don't believe that imperfect men could come up with something that Jesus seems to think is THAT perfect.
Again, I didn't say that man wrote the Bible without God's inspiration. Everything that God wanted written within it is inerrant. Thus, if God desired to tell of a parable called "Jonah" and a prophet who incorrectly assumes that salvation is only for the Jews - although God does so with a mythical story, does that MEAN that God's Word is not fully inerrant? That it is not truth??? If you have no problems with Jesus telling parables, why can't the OT have parables?
God's "literal" word was intended to be interpreted at times God's "literal" word is eternal and not subject to interpretation by man. Thus, the problem with Islam, brother. Christianity can thrive because we CAN realize that God's Word is mediated through man. The Church CAN interpret it - making the Scripture LIVING. It is through the Church that the Scripture remains alive.
Regards