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To: jo kus; Forest Keeper
Yes, the Church CONFIRMS that Scripture....However, I must again say that "Scripture" was not so clear cut.

It must have been clear enough for them to confirm it.

Where FK and I disagree, however, is that a bishop would read a given writing and would recognize its orthodoxy based upon what they were taught. It wasn't the other way around.

I remember reading Iraeneus in which he stated that if a true believer heard heresy preached from the pulpit, the Holy Spirit would cause that person to cover their ears and run from the Church never to go back. (I'm not sure if he capitalized "Church".)

The Canon didn't form itself!

Let's see, 1) the scriptures were written, 2) the Church confirmed they were written, 3) no one debated they were genuine, 4) they were taught in all the Churches, 5) they were accepted as inspired. I guess they were formed when the apostles wrote them down.

6,763 posted on 05/16/2006 1:02:22 PM PDT by HarleyD ("Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" Luk 24:45)
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To: HarleyD

Nor are they theology, I hear


6,764 posted on 05/16/2006 1:09:16 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper
It must have been clear enough for them to confirm it.

As you well know, this was not an overnight event. It took several hundred years to determine the overall Canon. Thus, it WASN'T "clear enough"...

I remember reading Iraeneus in which he stated that if a true believer heard heresy preached from the pulpit, the Holy Spirit would cause that person to cover their ears and run from the Church never to go back. (I'm not sure if he capitalized "Church".)

He also wrote that the Gauls were to be highly praised, as they were very knowledgeable in the "Gospel", although never having it read to them! They had NO Scripture, but relied entirely on the teachings passed to them by their bishops...

I wrote : The Canon didn't form itself.

You replied :Let's see, 1) the scriptures were written, 2) the Church confirmed they were written, 3) no one debated they were genuine, 4) they were taught in all the Churches, 5) they were accepted as inspired. I guess they were formed when the apostles wrote them down.

LOL! Well, it sounds like you are backpedaling against your previous statements. How dare a Catholic be right? First, the "Scriptures" were not called "Scriptures" when first written. They were identified as such much later. Second, the Church DID debate on the authenticity of so-called "Scriptures" - Paul HIMSELF was worried about forgeries. Next, where and how are you going to prove that more than a few epistles were available to Christians in the various churches spread throughout the Roman Empire? You think they uploaded them to the Catholic Encyclopedia of 100 AD? And finally, they were NOT universally accepted as inspired.

You are forgeting that the Table of Contents of Scripture is NOT inspired. Thus, the Successors of the Apostles had to LATER determine what WAS Scripture. The letter of James does not mention that it is the inspired word of God! People read it and accepted it based on the Community's ALREADY HELD CONCEPTS of the Faith! Thus, the Proclamation, the Word given by the Apostles was given orally at first, and there is absolutely no indication that EVERYTHING is found within these letters. That is why the Church NEVER made a Sola Scriptura declaration. The Church's sense detected the Scripture. The Scripture did not form or create the Church.

Regards

6,796 posted on 05/16/2006 4:59:55 PM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
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