Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: jo kus
The Apostles were singularly blessed as being infallible. Both their oral and written teachings were directly from God. While God certainly can inspire saints to give teachings, the Church does not bind other people to heed such private revelation.

Yes, I believe that the Apostles were in a class by themselves.

The Church was still growing and were looking for ADULT converts to continue the faith. Once settling in, once they saw that Christ wasn't about to come again in glory in the next week, I think they saw that it was time to allow or expand the practice (to loosen, as their authority was given to do) to include infants.

But the Apostles could not have taught that it was proper to baptize an adult who was a non-believer. Surely, they understood that infants were also "non-believers" just in a definitional sense. So, it doesn't seem to me that they would be just expanding a practice to include more people, they had to change the meaning of it, didn't they?

On Mary being sinless, this would likely be more of a "feeling" based on the total teachings given. Being that the Apostles were around her for the entire three years of Jesus' ministry, she was in the Upper Room during Pentecost, was alive and under John's care for a number of years, I would say theologically AND historically, they had the evidence available to them to make the statement.

Now, now, you know as well as I that sin is also in thought, which none of the Apostles could have known as regards Mary. One example of Mary's sin that I have heard of was at the wedding in Cana. Frankly, I'd be willing to let that one slide. Objectively, I honestly don't see enough evidence. However, and since I'm thinking of it at this moment, :) is it a sin to disbelieve when one has no excuse? If it is, then how does Mary get out of the scene when she went to the tomb to anoint the body? She didn't bring the spices because she expected a risen Lord, EXACTLY when He said He would rise. The angel's question confirms this.

AH! So YOU DO pick and choose what YOU think is important! Apparently, you think "FK's bible interpretation" = the "Word of God". Jesus' attitude was about placing man above the sabbath - thus, we can bend the sabbath "rules" to take care of a person in need, or walk a mile to feed someone. ... -- This doesn't mean we pick and choose what day to give to God!

No, Jesus demonstrated that He is a Christ of common sense, especially on this issue. The day of Sunday was selected to legitimately honor Him. By the words of Christ Himself:

Mark 2:27 : Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

May I assume that you ignore this verse in defending your position that the only legitimate Sabbath is on a Saturday? (I assume that because you said that we don't pick and choose which day to worship God.) I didn't even know that Catholics don't worship on Sundays!

6,690 posted on 05/15/2006 7:44:24 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6239 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper
But the Apostles could not have taught that it was proper to baptize an adult who was a non-believer. Surely, they understood that infants were also "non-believers" just in a definitional sense. So, it doesn't seem to me that they would be just expanding a practice to include more people, they had to change the meaning of it, didn't they?

That argument makes no sense, given the background of the Apostles - THEY CIRCUMCISED INFANTS! They themselves were circumcised as infants. Christ was circumcised as an infant. And Paul clearly parallels circumcision and baptism - that circumcision was a shadow of the good things to come. They served similar purposes - to induct people into the Church, the People of God. Thus, it is a very small step to include infants as being able to be baptized. Anyway, God gives faith, correct? Are you saying that one must have "x" amount of faith (from God) to become baptized? What exactly are you saying when you claim that ONLY believers can be baptized? Does one have to earn baptism? Is it a work of man?

Now, now, you know as well as I that sin is also in thought, which none of the Apostles could have known as regards Mary. One example of Mary's sin that I have heard of was at the wedding in Cana. Frankly, I'd be willing to let that one slide. Objectively, I honestly don't see enough evidence. However, and since I'm thinking of it at this moment, :) is it a sin to disbelieve when one has no excuse? If it is, then how does Mary get out of the scene when she went to the tomb to anoint the body? She didn't bring the spices because she expected a risen Lord, EXACTLY when He said He would rise. The angel's question confirms this.

That Mary was without sin is "fitting", given the Divine Being she carried in her womb. We see Mary as the Ark of the Covenant, as she, like the original Ark, carried the Bread of Life, the High Priest, the Law. Jesus Christ went beyond the mere symbols in the original ark. And the Ark was made of pure gold, purified. We take this symbolism all the way. We also understand that Mary is the New Eve, who ALSO was born sinless. Thus, the development of Mary as being pure. The Apostles must have seen her apparent sinlessness, and Scriptures point to the "fittingness" of Mary being sinless - JUST like we presume that Jesus also didn't have a sinful thought, even though Paul or the Apostles couldn't have known either person's mind or thoughts.

I don't see any sin from Mary's actions at Cana. You need to look beyond the literal in John's Gospel, brother. It goes much deeper, pointing to the woman at the foot of the cross and the woman in the Garden of Eden.

However, and since I'm thinking of it at this moment, :) is it a sin to disbelieve when one has no excuse?

There is a difference between disbelief and doubt. One can have many doubts pass through their minds and still believe.

May I assume that you ignore this verse in defending your position that the only legitimate Sabbath is on a Saturday? (I assume that because you said that we don't pick and choose which day to worship God.) I didn't even know that Catholics don't worship on Sundays!

We worship on Sundays since the time of the Apostles to celebrate the NEW CREATION - the Resurrection.

Regards

6,722 posted on 05/16/2006 5:43:46 AM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6690 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson