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FK: I say that God picked His elect for certain from before the foundation of the world

KOSTA: That would imply the pre-existance of souls, which is a Gnostic belief -- of which St. Paul has been suspect, at least in his earlier beliefs.

No, that more than implies, that declares that God ordains from eternity who are His and whom He will save by His grace through giving faith in Jesus Christ.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" -- Ephesians 1:4-5

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:10

And this is at least the second time on this forum you've maligned Paul as some kind of "gnostic."

I guess when you relegate Scripture to second place, especially when that Scripture doesn't fit your Platonic perspectives, it's easier to toss claims of gnosticism onto the head of perhaps the greatest Apostle God created.

Thankfully, he surmounted worse insults in preaching the word of God.

And thus, by the grace of God, Paul turned West.

I had asked before not to quote Paul. It seems that your whole concept of Christianity, or 90% or more, comes from Paul.

That Paul was suspected of Gnosticism is not my invention either and is not maligning him. He was worse than that before he converted -- he persecuted Chirstians. It also does not say that he did not become a great Christian because of his earlier beliefs and deeds. I also said that he saved Christianity from certain death. I would intentionally not go beyond that statement.

It appears that the popular thing is to prefer personal human opinions rather than the sure milk of the oracles of God. Nothing much new there, after all, Satan fooled Eve into thinking she would be like God, so why wouldn't the popular thing of the blind to prefer their own opinions equal to or better than God's Word?

head of perhaps the greatest Apostle God created.

Thankfully, he surmounted worse insults in preaching the word of God.

Hey all...

I believe Paul to be the greatest Apostle too, without a doubt. With the help of Our Lord, it seems to me he saved Christianity from oblivion. In Paul Johnson's History of Christianity he posits that St. Paul, at times was at odds with the Apostles operating out of Jerusalem, the 'center' party. He also posited that this 'center' party would have probably anathematized him if they could, as they tried to get him declared a heretic.

Politics is politics is politics. But St. Paul certainly seems to have been a maverick, and preached in a manner more similar to Christ's than the other Apostles.

James' works/faith Gospel does not really seem at odds to me with St. Paul's Letters, as the works that James mentions as an illustration of his point seem to me to be more 'acts' of Faith, and not works, as I understand them.

Abraham's willingness to slay his beloved Isaac was not a 'work', it was an act of Faith, and that's the message I think St. James is really getting at. It's always puzzled me that his Gospel is used as some kind of 'ace in the whole' for the line of thought that professes works to be kept track of by God, so that you can get to be with God.

Christ declared that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church, and they haven't and they won't. I've never fully understood though what the gates of hell prevailing would actually entail, and everybody I've asked hasn't given me an answer that's worth very much. I think it means that no matter what fate befalls the Church, a small segment will always remain, who will unabashedly and passionately confess, as St. Paul confessed, Jesus Christ crucified.

Hope all of you are well, and sorry if my post is a bunch of scattered thoughts.