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To: annalex
King James had nothing to do with the translating of the King James Bible except authorizing it. I know. And his need was to create an English translation that is as anti-clerical as possible, so he authorized to put all the accents accordingly. Priests became "elders", and everything to do with Mary, as a type of Christian Church had to be trivialized. Luke 1:28 is not the only mistranslation. John 2:4 is another. John 19:27 is another.

No, since the Geneva has 'freely beloved' (and King James had no love for the Geneva)

Moreover, the King James translators had a footnote 'or graciously accepted or muched graced,)

The Reformers actually held a much higher view of Mary was warrented by scripture.

Now as for Mary being a type of the church, where does that come from?

'favored' simply means blessed anyway The intent is to trivialize the blessing. "Grace" is a theological term that has specific meaning of cleansing of sin. "Favor" does not have such connotation. Besides, you are right, "favored" is roughly synonymous with "blessed", but she is also called "blessed" directly in the same phrase, so King James' translation of "favored" is flat redundant.

No, she was favored in that the Lord picked her to bear the Jewish Messiah.

That is exactly what she refers to in vs. 48, when she states that 'the Lord has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden'

The choice of Mary had nothing to do with the Mary being born special, but God making a sovereign choice, just like choosing the Apostles.

NASB and the NIV Yes, many translations follow King James Version. So, avoid them too, and read Douay-Rheims if you cannot read Greek or Latin.

Well, the point is that the verse can be translated that way.

Actually I do read both, and compared to most modern translations the Douay-Rheims is not as bad.

However, the perfect translation is the King James.

The real issue is did Mary need a saviour That is not the issue at dispute; of course she did, and Christ is her savior too. He saved her at the moment she was conceived. This is why it is called Immaculate Conception.

Scripture please? (LOL!)

Mary was saved like everyone else, by believing God (Rom.10:7)

A Roman Catholic talking about a Protestant lying about the Gospel! Protestantism began with a lie about the Gospel (Roman 3:28, to be precise, was intentionally mangled by Luther, because the only way he could "prove" his Sola Fide fantasy was to commit fraud).

Now you know that is not true.

When Luther wrote the phrase' faith without works' he had also Gal.2:16 and Rom.4:5, 16 in mind as well.

Salvation is by faith alone in the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom.5:1-2).

Works are a result of salvation, not a cause of it. (1Cor.3:10-15)

what does Mary have to do with any Gospel She has everything to do with it (Luke 11:28).

Funny, I read that verse has negating Mary's influence.

Mary was blessed for bearing the Lord, but 'rather' (instead) blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.

Christ shifts the emphasis away from Mary giving birth to the Messiah, to the word of God, where it ought to be.

6,425 posted on 05/12/2006 4:04:31 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration
King James had no love for the Geneva

I did not imply that he did, but his political interests must have influenced the translators, given the systematic anticlerical spin in KJV.

the perfect translation is the King James

I showed you where it is not perfect. Accidentally, I agree that it is nevertheless a good translation, and is far superior to any modern translation. But perfect it ain't.

Mary being a type of the church, where does that come from?

Mary carried Christ in her womb and the Church carries Christ in the Eucharist abnd in her custody of the Bible.

Scripture please?

The Immaculate Conception is not directly described in the scripture.

Mary was saved like everyone else, by believing God

By believing God and following His command, yes.

When Luther wrote the phrase' faith without works' he had also Gal.2:16 and Rom.4:5, 16 in mind as well.

I don't care what he had in his mind; he intentionally mistranslated the Word of God.

Mary was blessed for bearing the Lord, but 'rather' (instead) blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.

There is no "but rather" in the original. The meaning of "menounge makarioi" is "yes, and also". Once again, you are bringing up Pretestant spin, and I reed what is written.

6,442 posted on 05/12/2006 4:45:18 PM PDT by annalex
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