If you have a driver's license, you have the legal status of being able to drive. When you lose the license, your status changes - but does the driver's license? "Eternal life" conveys a status upon the believer until that status is lost. "Eternal life" remains eternal life for those who have it. As long as we are in this world, we can lose it, according to the Scriptures.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 1 John 5:11-12
Don't feel bad. I have recently discovered this myself while studying John more thoroughly. It cleared up a few issues within the Johninne Corpus.
If you are referring to the passage I think you are in John 6, then I see that as another way of putting what He already said earlier in the chapter, that whoever believes on Him will have eternal life.
Believing and chewing something with your teeth is not the same thing...
No, He is talking to us. He is telling us to not succumb to the remnant, to trust in Him for perseverance, etc.
Now why would God tell us to persevere if we can do nothing?
But to carry the analogy, you also believe that the baby, when he grows up, can "unpunch" his own ticket. That means it was never punched in the first place, and in fact, never is during life. If the analogy had to do with a ringing bell, you would say it makes perfect sense that it can be "unrung"!
I don't follow this "never was punched in the first place". It happened. You can't deny it. We are regenerated upon Baptism, our sins are remitted. Spiritually, this is a real event. But post-Baptismal sins can undo some of the work of Baptism.
When you get sick - then are healed, does that mean you never were sick in the first place? Does that mean you will never get sick again? Really, now. What is so hard about this?
However, God's guarantees are much grander. He guarantees that none of His sheep will ever be lost for good
This was NEVER an issue between us. I have never said the elect are not guaranteed heaven. The question is "who is the elect?" We HOPE we are of the elect. We don't presume to be. God doesn't give us absolute knowledge, since we ALL sin.
God doesn't promise us that we will never sin again, but God does promise to fix us.
That is not entirely true. God only promises to fix those who turn to Him. I have quoted Ezekiel a number of times - and he states that the righteous who turn to evil will DIE! Don't be so sure that you will not turn to evil in the end. Who can say what will happen in 20 years? That is why Catholics say that the grace of FINAL perseverance CANNOT be merited!
God doesn't "repair" those who remain in sin. You should know better. The wrath of God consists in leaving men in their sin. LEAVING THEM!
Even in our system of jurisprudence we recognize that when a payment of justice is made, there does not necessarily have to be a direct beneficiary of the payment.
In all of your examples, another person or entity's desire for justice is satisfied. So are you saying that God allowed His Son to die to satisfy His own sense of justice? If so, I would consider this a secondary reason for the crucifixion. Love is the primary reason, pure and simple. I believe over-emphasis on atonement tends to move our paradigm of Whom God is towards a revengeful bloodthirsty God, rather than a God who is Love.
Regards
A driver's license is a conditional privilege, subject to being lost if the conditions are not met. If you think this is the same as eternal life, then you should not call it "eternal life". You should really call it "conditional life". So, if "eternal life" is conditional and subject to change, then you must also believe that eternal damnation is also conditional and can be changed. If the eternally damned do good deeds in hell, can they be let into heaven? No one can ever be eternally damned, because "eternal" means "conditional", right?
But thank you for the verses. Now I see more clearly the tie-in to the Catholic view of assurance. This makes more sense now.
Now why would God tell us to persevere if we can do nothing?
God is commanding/encouraging us to not choose to sin, which we can always do. So, though I might say that I am already saved, for the rest of my life I might choose to sin "X" number of times, or "X" plus 50,000 number of times. If I am of the elect, then I am still saved either way. God is revealing His will that our goal is to never choose sin.
I don't follow this "never was punched in the first place". It happened. You can't deny it. We are regenerated upon Baptism, our sins are remitted. Spiritually, this is a real event. But post-Baptismal sins can undo some of the work of Baptism.
This is directly related to our discussion on what "eternal" means. To me, once a ticket is punched, that's it, the ticket has a hole in it, and it is a permanent hole. Under your system, this hole CAN be filled in again such that the ticket was never punched in the first place. To you, it is not permanent because salvation, once won, can still be lost. A person who loses his salvation is in the same place as someone who never had it at all. To me, this makes as much sense as unringing a bell. Likewise, to you "eternal" is only conditional. It belies the meaning of the word.
When you get sick - then are healed, does that mean you never were sick in the first place? Does that mean you will never get sick again? Really, now. What is so hard about this?
God doesn't promise that we will never get sick again, He promises that those who believe will go to heaven. I know that you have compared our salvific state to that of being sick before, but I don't see the support for it in scripture.
FK: "He guarantees that none of His sheep will ever be lost for good."
This was NEVER an issue between us. I have never said the elect are not guaranteed heaven.
I know you've never said the elect can be lost, but I thought that we disagreed on who the sheep were. I thought you have said that God has delegated the power to men to supersede God's word, and snatch themselves out of God's hands. However, I think you may have used different words. :) But the meaning was clear to me, free will means that anyone can override this scripture. This includes the elect, who will presumably come back later. I expect you to explain to me that in the verse, the correct interpretation of "no one" is "everyone concerning himself". That would be the only thing consistent with my understanding of what you have said.
God doesn't "repair" those who remain in sin. You should know better. The wrath of God consists in leaving men in their sin. LEAVING THEM!
OK, when I said "God promises to fix US", I should have said "God promises to fix His elect". Is that better? :)
So are you saying that God allowed His Son to die to satisfy His own sense of justice? If so, I would consider this a secondary reason for the crucifixion. Love is the primary reason, pure and simple.
Yes, I fully agree.