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To: Agrarian; monkfan
Everything about what Monkfan said was based on nothing but speculation.

There is no reason to expect or believe that Mary would of been approached by an angel so that the angel could announce her impending motherhood had this been just a normal run of the mill pregnancy.

And also, that totally destroys your argument that Mary was sworn to be and remain a virgin.

Better still, let us look to what the Bible says and why Mary was in amazement.

Mary knew the sign of the messiah.......

Isaiah 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

5,827 posted on 05/06/2006 7:58:00 PM PDT by Full Court (www.justbible.com)
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To: Full Court

"There is no reason to expect or believe that Mary would of been approached by an angel so that the angel could announce her impending motherhood had this been just a normal run of the mill pregnancy."

An angel appeared to Samson's parents and to Zechariah to announce the birth of a child. So, in the Bible, angels appear to announce the births of children conceived in an ordinary way.

"And also, that totally destroys your argument that Mary was sworn to be and remain a virgin."

Exactly what destroys my argument? (And note that I'm not arguing that you can, from Scripture alone, come up with the Orthodox understanding. I'm simply saying that the Scripture does not contradict the Orthodox understanding.)

"Mary knew the sign of the messiah.......
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

Actually, unless I am misunderstanding you, you are arguing against yourself. If she knew that the sign of the Messiah was that he would be the result of a virgin birth, and she knew that the angel was telling her that she would bear the Messiah, then her response wouldn't be "how can this be, seeing that I know not a man?" Her response would have either have been "Oh, joy, I'm going to bear the Messiah, and of course it has to be when I am not "knowing" a man," or "How can this thing be, since I'm about to get married and sexually active, and the Messiah is supposed to be born of a virgin?"

None of these are how she actually responded, if you look to the Bible to see what it says.

You'll have to try again, and come up with a logical reason why she responded with the words, "How can this be, seeing that I know not a man?"


5,853 posted on 05/07/2006 6:16:34 PM PDT by Agrarian
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To: Full Court
"Everything about what Monkfan said was based on nothing but speculation."

Oh, ok. I see how you are. Hold that thought a minute.

"Mary knew the sign of the messiah......."

And how exactly do you know this?

"Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

Well, unfortunately for you, this passage only proves that Isaiah knew the sign of the messiah. So, unless you can meet your own burden of proof, a scriptural passage stating explicitly that Mary knew the sign, I'll take it your assertion is based on nothing but speculation.

Fair is fair, FC. If you are going to insist on a particular standard, the least you can do is hold yourself to it.

5,867 posted on 05/07/2006 10:06:27 PM PDT by monkfan (rediscover communication)
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