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To: kosta50
fortheDeclaration;: The New Testament was recognized by the Church as a spiritual body, made up of local churches in the 1st century." IQ: As it turns out, that was not the case. It took several hundred years to settle on the canon.

The Canon was no problem for the local churches.

It was only a problem for the intellectuals.

I made that very clear in my post on the compilation of the NT. the Church is not a disembodied spirit, it is the Body of Christ present on earth. Christ founded only one Church that had a defined leadership

The early church was made up of house churches.(Rom.16:5)

Once the Apostles faded out at the end of the 1st century with the death of John, the local church leadership was composed of individual Pastors (Bishops) and Deacons (1Tim.3, 1Pe.5)

Exactly. Every church (as a building) under a bishop provides fullness of faith and sacraments, regardless of size or location. Individual churches are not "body parts," but one and the same Organism.

There are only two ordinances, adult Baptism (once, as a symbol of faith-1Pe.3:21) and the Lord's Supper, done in remberance of what the Lord did and His physical return to set up His kingdom (1Cor.11).

As for the church, it is a spiritual body, made up of all true believers,(who have believed in the saving work of Christ by faith alone-Rom.5:1, Gal.2:16), making up the Bride of Christ (Eph.1:23, 5:30)

The Roman Catholic system did not even come into existance until the 4th century and has been evolving (leaven-Matthew 13:33) ever since

5,769 posted on 05/05/2006 3:39:22 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration
The Canon was no problem for the local churches. It was only a problem for the intellectuals.

You ougth to know...

The early church was made up of house churches (Rom.16:5)

Nonsense. You are confusing a church building (a temple as it is still called in the Orthodox East) with the Church.

Once the Apostles faded out at the end of the 1st century with the death of John, the local church leadership was composed of individual Pastors (Bishops) and Deacons(1Tim.3, 1Pe.5)

The Apostles did not "fade away" actually died martyrs' deaths, something most Christians today would probably not do. I love the way Protestants show cntempt for everyone but themsleves.

Bishops were direct successors of Apostles, who ordained them. The Church therefore did not change with their "fading away."

There are only two ordinances, adult Baptism (once, as a symbol of faith-1Pe.3:21) and the Lord's Supper, done in remberance of what the Lord did and His physical return to set up His kingdom (1Cor.11).

There is no limit as to the number of Mysteries (Sacraments) spelled out in the Scripture.

The Roman Catholic system did not even come into existance until the 4th century and has been evolving (leaven-Matthew 13:33)

And this is related to the Church canonizing Apostolic teaching in which way?

5,772 posted on 05/05/2006 6:45:16 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: fortheDeclaration
The Roman Catholic system did not even come into existance until the 4th century and has been evolving (leaven-Matthew 13:33) ever since

You've been sadly misinformed... I suggest you go to the men of before the fourth century and see what they have to say about the "Roman system" already in existence before Constantine.

2. "....Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority,that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.

3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians [written c. 96 AD], exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spake with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 3

It should be quite clear that this "system" was already in existence when Clement was Bishop of Rome, in the 90's - when John the Evangelist was still alive, no less. I think you should reconsider you concept of the Roman Catholic Church coming into existence in the 300's

Regards

5,836 posted on 05/07/2006 9:26:46 AM PDT by jo kus (I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart...Psalm 119:32)
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