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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus; HarleyD; qua; AlbionGirl; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
I think I'm on fairly safe ground in saying that no Catholic baby has a punched ticket into heaven upon infant baptism.

It's my understanding that an infant baptized as a Roman Catholic would have a punched ticket into heaven by virtue of being baptized into the Roman fold.

I believe Catholic doctrine says when a person reaches some sort of "age of accountability" then confession and a priest's absolution are necessary for "sanctifying grace" to occur. After confession, the person is heaven-worthy, but immediately (most likely) starts sinning again and thus needs confession and absolution again, and so on and so on...

This accounts for the Roman Catholic view that justification is somehow the same thing as sanctification, an endless process of sinning, being forgiven, sinning, being forgiven, etc.

And thus the need for the Last Rites of the church upon death -- to take care of any remaining sin since the last confession.

5,392 posted on 05/02/2006 8:58:23 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
It's my understanding that an infant baptized as a Roman Catholic would have a punched ticket into heaven by virtue of being baptized into the Roman fold.

No one is "baptized into the Roman fold"... WE are baptized into Christ's Church. A Protestant infant who was properly baptized will share similar seating at the Wedding Feast in Heaven.

I believe Catholic doctrine says when a person reaches some sort of "age of accountability" then confession and a priest's absolution are necessary for "sanctifying grace" to occur.

WE, including Protestants, receive sanctifying grace during our Trinitarian Baptism. This sanctifying grace can be lost as the result of a future mortal sin, which destroys this gift. Only through the post-Baptismal cleansing of Confession does Christ ordinarily restore Sanctifying Grace necessary to reach heaven. Non-mortal sins (venial) wound this Sanctifying Grace, but does not eliminate it.

After confession, the person is heaven-worthy, but immediately (most likely) starts sinning again and thus needs confession and absolution again, and so on and so on...

You are placing ALL sin into one category. There are mortal and venial sins. Venial sins do not kill Sanctifying Grace in our souls. Only a mortal sin does. And those who come to Confession with good intention do not ordinarily continue committing mortal sins! The graces of the Sacrament aids a person in rejecting future temptations to mortally sin, and in time, to reject many future temptations to even sin venially. Our experience and teachings tell us the truth of this. Those who are faithful to Christ's presence through the sacraments rarely sin in such a manner.

This accounts for the Roman Catholic view that justification is somehow the same thing as sanctification, an endless process of sinning, being forgiven, sinning, being forgiven, etc.

The Bible speaks synonymously of sanctification and justification. They are both seen as ongoing processes. Justification is not a one-time event, as the example of Abram's multiple justifications attest to. As to the "endless process of sinning, being forgiven, sinning", perhaps you should recall that this is how God has ALWAYS treated His people. Have you considered this is precisely what happens in the OT Scriptures? The Jews sin, they beg forgiveness, God returns them to grace... Fortunately, Jesus says that God forgives "seventy times seven"...

And thus the need for the Last Rites of the church upon death -- to take care of any remaining sin since the last confession.

It's called "Anointing of the Sick", not "Last Rites". Is there a problem with begging for Christ's healing touch when we are sick, even physically sick? Did not the Jews consider that physical sickness was often the result of spiritual sickness? Thus, we beg for spiritual healing - and receive it - in the Sacrament. Sometimes, people ALSO receive physical healing.

Regards

5,397 posted on 05/02/2006 10:26:34 AM PDT by jo kus (I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart...Psalm 119:32)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; jo kus; HarleyD; qua; AlbionGirl; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
FK: "I think I'm on fairly safe ground in saying that no Catholic baby has a punched ticket into heaven upon infant baptism."

It's my understanding that an infant baptized as a Roman Catholic would have a punched ticket into heaven by virtue of being baptized into the Roman fold.

This is too funny because when I first said this I thought it was the most innocent of comments. :) I was thinking along the lines that because there is no assurance in Catholicism, the ticket is never punched into heaven. Never during life. Therefore, Catholics spend their entire lives sitting on the train, even with a ticket (stub), but it is never legitimated by the conductor coming through and punching it, thus, verifying it. The punching cancels out the ticket and stub in order to prevent fraud. My little analogy was that Catholics can never be sure that they will not become a fraud in God's eyes, and lost forever. Therefore, their tickets are never punched.

5,669 posted on 05/05/2006 3:23:30 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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