I have already told you -- they believe in the same God. They just didn't see Jesus Christ as their God of Abraham. So, are you now saying that one must believe in God the Father and God the Son to be saved? The New Testament says we are saved by faith alone -- faith in one God, God of Abraham (who also happens to be our Lord Jesus Christ, our Lord Holy Spirit and our Lord the Father). Where does it say in the OT that one must be baptized to be made righteous before God? Or is that part of the OT you selectively reject?
My point was to show that their kingdom of God could be taken away from them even though they believed. To me that suggests that they were saved but were about to lose it.
They actively rejected the Christ
Almost all of Israel rejected Christ and Christians. By the time +Paul was writing his epistles, the Jewish followers of Chirst were being thrown out of the synagogues. Without Paul "selling" this new type of Judaism to the Gentiles, Christianity would have died out like Sadducees and Essenes have. So, please then tell me that the Jews are not saved because they believe in the God of Abraham, but we are. Where did the righteous OT Hebrews come from? Did they accept Christ? If Adam and Eve could be saved, I think there is hope for more than you believe.
In one of your more recent posts you were asking how could anyone not believe when God parted the Red Sea. Indeed, how could the Jews not believe in Jesus when he performed all the miracles. And wasn't Moses convinced of God's power by what we could call "magic" today? Such as turning his walking stick into a snake and back? If tricks and magic are what you call "revealed faith" you are sadly mistaken. Most of the "convincing evidence" in the Bible consists of such miracles and what we would call natural disasters.
Obviously, the Jews were not impressed with the parting of the Red Sea, or else they would not have made a golden calf or worshiped pagan gods on numerous occasions in their fickle history. Obviously, those who called Christ to come down form the Cross wre waiting for the same "sign" and miracle from a Miracle Maker He was renown for. That does not tell me that their faith, or even the faith of Christians was anything but based on observed miracles and hearsay, not based on spiritual revelations.
Yet today we believe that faith is "given" to us without miracles and without any faculty of logic or reason. In all these instances I see a lot of MEN doing and saying things they ascribe to God. The only thing mankind cannot manipulate is the message which none of us can emulate fully but know that is it s good.
One surprising thing this thread has shown me is that not all Christians believe that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation.
The New Testament tells us it is not enough to simply "believe in God." Muslims "believe in God" while actively repudiating Christ's divinity.
The New Testament explains that the Old Testament saints were saved by faith in the coming of Jesus Christ.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." -- Hebrews 10:5-10"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Yes, absolutely and categorically. I confess that I am mystified that you would ask. :
Acts 4:10-12 : 10 ... then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
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Where does it say in the OT that one must be baptized to be made righteous before God? Or is that part of the OT you selectively reject?
"Baptism" has different meanings, but in the sense I think you mean, I don't know of anywhere in the Bible that says that baptism CAUSES righteousness. I thought that's what you all believed.
My point was to show that their kingdom of God could be taken away from them even though they believed. To me that suggests that they were saved but were about to lose it.
As I think Jo Kus has correctly pointed out, we see the concept of "salvation" very differently. But regardless, one clue I look to in guessing whether the Pharisees were saved is how Jesus spoke to them. It was almost always negative, wasn't it? He even openly called them hypocrites. To me, this matches pretty well with how He spoke to other people we are led to believe were lost.
Where did the righteous OT Hebrews come from? Did they accept Christ? If Adam and Eve could be saved, I think there is hope for more than you believe.
Righteousness came from God-given faith. Yes, they accepted Christ as a future Messiah. I do not condemn people from OT times because they didn't have the same understanding of Christ that we have, but still, to believe in the one true God is to believe in the person of Jesus the Christ.