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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; AlbionGirl; qua; blue-duncan; Frumanchu
The difference I see is that Protestants put God's word over and above men. Other non-Protestant groups put men over and above God's word. If anyone is self-righteous, who would that be?

The Church did not put men over and above God's word. Where do you find that? Self-rigtheousness comes from each individual believer being his or her own "pope." The Pope does not make the Church; the concensus patrum does. The Church did not re-invent the wheel: the same faith and knowledge of truth given to the Apostles at the Pentecost is what led to the Christian canon you call the Bible. We did not change or place the Scripture into the third drawer and made up our own rules. We are practicing what was practiced in the first century AD onward.

5,164 posted on 04/26/2006 6:49:53 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; HarleyD; qua; Forest Keeper; AlbionGirl
Self-righteousness comes from each individual believer being his or her own "pope."

No man is "pope." That's the point you miss.

5,169 posted on 04/26/2006 7:24:19 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; AlbionGirl; qua; Frumanchu

"Self-rigtheousness comes from each individual believer being his or her own "pope.""

Self-righteousness comes from each individual person, including believers, being his/her own god! You give "pope" too much credit. Self-righteousness is sin.


5,170 posted on 04/26/2006 7:43:04 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: kosta50; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; AlbionGirl; qua; blue-duncan; Frumanchu
The Church did not put men over and above God's word. Where do you find that?

I find that on this thread. Because so much of Tradition is not technically found in the scriptures, it is independent. On issues such as infant baptism, purgatory, and Mary's perpetual virginity, there really is no supporting scripture. These beliefs stand on their own and are taken as truth.

However, with the Bible, there are many verses in which the plain meaning "apparently" directly contradicts the plain meaning of Tradition. There must be an interpretation. Something has to be nuanced. In every single case, which is it? In every case, it is the meaning of the Bible which is changed to match Tradition. The old, plain meaning is thrown out in favor of a Church approved new meaning in order to match. This is man over God's word. Tradition stands on its own, the Bible does not.

You might say that nothing was ever thrown out, that it has always been this way. If that is true, then Christianity is not a revealed faith EXCEPT THROUGH MEN. You believe that there is absolutely no way in the world anyone could correctly read the Bible without the interpretation of the Church. Again, this puts man over and above God's word.

Kosta, you yourself have said on this thread that you deny the historical accuracy of the Bible. I can't remember reading a verse that acknowledges that the Bible is really to be taken as a collection of morality plays, like the original Star Trek. There are many stories, especially in the OT, which by a plain reading give no indication that they are allegory, and yet you do not believe they actually happened. It takes men to make those decisions, God never said they weren't true. Men put themselves over the word.

5,194 posted on 04/27/2006 1:45:07 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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