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To: qua; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; HarleyD
Hi qua,

I'm responding to this post a little late, I know. I've not been able to respond until now, but it really stuck with me. Not because I know anything about Thomas Aquinas' thinking on the body such as you have indicated, but because I believe that until recently RC did hold the body to be evil, if not in theory, in practice. When I say recently, I mean that JP II's Theology of the Body seems to step away from that. When I say in practice, it is from personal experience that extends beyond one religious, one place, one time.

There is a quote of Augustine, towards the end of his life when he's arguing with a Julian regarding the conjugal union. Julian (I'm sorry I can't remember the rest of his name, but I believe he was a follower of Pelagius) was arguing the liberal point of view advocating that sex, in and of itself, was neutral, and could be used for good or ill, however Augustine fired back contending the opposite, noting that it's fitting we should so often be disturbed by lustful impulses as that was how Original Sin was first passed on, Ecce Unde!, was how he stated it, IIRC.

I haven't come across too much of Calvin's writing which gives me a full-view of how he saw the body, but I do know that he held it to be one of the finest of God's Works. And a paradox seems to exist between his thinking on Total Depravity, and his exaltation of man as God's finest Creation. His thinking on priestly celibacy is an excellent example of getting it right, in my view, and the language he uses gives me the impression he sees the body in a much more natural and positive light than how I perceive Augustine to have viewed it.

One of the things I'm interested in knowing about is how the conjugal union between man and woman (Adam and Eve) was believed to be given or issued by God. Was it to be viewed as a blessing or a curse? I've always had the sense that it was one of God's finest Gifts, somewhat like His Signature, in that through it abundant life is begotten, and that beyond that, it was bestowed as a unitive gift for man and woman too, that is, as a refuge for oneness and non-division that was basically lost once paradise was lost, and that it remained a life-line from God to man in the most fundamental yet deepest of ways.

qua, Dr. E, Harley and FK, I never know for sure whether I should approach these kinds of issues or not through this medium. I did 'cause I thought you might have some thoughts on the subject, but if you'd rather I reserve this sort of stuff for my own musings, I understand perfectly.

4,871 posted on 04/20/2006 7:14:59 AM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: AlbionGirl; qua; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan
When our sons were little and actively trying to kill themselves through whatever means available, I struggled to teach them restraint and caution.

One day I hit upon a perfect statement which they tell me still rings in their ears at the most inopportune times. (To which I say, "tough luck.")

I happened upon this advice after catching the seven-year-old trying to open a box of cereal with an electric shoe polisher and nearly cutting off his thumb. I told him the best way to go through life was to use everything for the task for which it was created.

After employing that line about a thousand times in their childhood, I've realized it's good and Scriptural advice in any situation.

If God created everything, and if Romans 8:28 is true and "we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose," then life becomes clearer and more fulfilling when we seek to understand what His intent is for each and every thing in existence, and to discern how to best utilize its God-mandated purpose which we know will result in furthering our God-ordained sanctification.

Such certainty is a perk of being one of His sheep.

And so I believe you are correct when you write so beautifully -- "I've always had the sense that it was one of God's finest Gifts, somewhat like His Signature, in that through it abundant life is begotten, and that beyond that, it was bestowed as a unitive gift for man and woman too, that is, as a refuge for oneness and non-division that was basically lost once paradise was lost, and that it remained a life-line from God to man in the most fundamental yet deepest of ways."

To have and raise children who kneel to none but Christ is a blessed and joyous duty. It was only after I had children, however, that I understood how perfect and generous the making of those children really was.

It's all a gift -- life, love, children, marriage, the earth, the body, redemption, even the sorrows -- all gifts because they all come from God, given to those whom He loves.

"Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17

4,890 posted on 04/20/2006 11:24:02 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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