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To: Agrarian; annalex
What annalex is saying, I think, is that just as the Scriptures were not written in a vacuum, they were never interpreted in a vacuum.

Yes, and as I say, in effect, to Alex in my 4333, I don't think I worded that post very well. :)

It would never occur to devout Catholics or Orthodox to question things like the Virgin Birth of Christ or the bodily Resurrection of Christ. This is because our tradition is unequivocal on these points -- we know that there is no other way for the Scriptures to be interpreted, not if we want to call ourselves Catholics or Orthodox Christians. (emphasis added)

This is a very key point for me. Is the greater reason you believe in the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection because Tradition says so, or is it because the Bible says so? You believed in both, (both) before and after your conversion, so you have a unique perspective.

4,355 posted on 04/04/2006 1:15:55 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper

"Is the greater reason you believe in the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection because Tradition says so, or is it because the Bible says so?"

The simple answer is, "yes."

OK, that's a little smart-alecky, but it's true. Orthodox Christians do not divide Scripture from the rest of Tradition. We view Scripture as being a part of the written body of work that reflects the one Holy Tradition of the Church.

Look, it is self-evident that the Scriptures can be interpreted in many ways. The saying goes that if you get two Protestants together for a Bible study, they'll come up with three explanations for the text they are studying.

Everyone interprets Scripture within a tradition, even if it is a tradition made up of a hodge-podge of different people who have preached or taught the Bible to them. We Orthodox understand the meaning of Scripture within a well-defined tradition. I think you understand that point.

But it is equally important to make another point -- one that will perhaps come closer to answering your question. Those things within Holy Tradition that are clearly talked about in the Bible are those things that we most unequivocally and firmly hold to.

For instance, with regard to a given event that is not a part of Scripture, there might be a couple of different variants on a tradition. But for something that is clearly detailed in the Scripture, such as the bodily Ascension into heaven of Christ, there is only one, very clear, tradition.

Not all written sources of Tradition have equal weight. So in that sense, I guess you could say that the historical details of the Virgin Birth and the bodily Resurrection of Christ would not be nearly as weighty to us if they were only a part of our non-Scriptural writings that convey the details of Tradition in written form.

But, it is the context of the interpretation of those Scriptures within our tradition that makes an Orthodox Christian basically impervious to anyone trying to find a way to call these things "cunningly devised fables." To anyone who has attended Saturday evening/Sunday morning services for any length of time, let alone a Paschal service or two, it would take great mental gymnastics to come up with any conclusion but that the Orthodox Church takes the Scriptural accounts of the bodily Resurrection extremely literally, and that no, this is not something that will be up for discussion at any time in the future.


4,356 posted on 04/04/2006 2:41:47 AM PDT by Agrarian
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To: Forest Keeper
Is the greater reason you believe in the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection because Tradition says so, or is it because the Bible says so?

I believe in the Incarnation and the Resurrection, like most Christians, since childhood, because my parents taught me (even though my childhood education in the atheist Soviet Union had its defects). In fact, even as a an adult, I experience my faith in Church before I can articulate it, and I hear the scripture before I read it. When I read the scripture it is to confirm my oral impression of it as I heard it from the pulpit, refresh my memory, or, like here, to argue a point. I think this is fairly common among both Catholics and the Orthodox, that they are stronger in the internalized scripture than they are in bookish prooftexting.

4,369 posted on 04/04/2006 11:31:50 AM PDT by annalex
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