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To: Forest Keeper
Is the unforgivable sin, simply any mortal sin that the person does not ask forgiveness for? Or, is it a specific sin against the Spirit?

I would say it is any unrepented mortal sin - especially one that a man refuses to repent of. God's forgiveness is conditional. Why are sins against the Third Person of the Trinity unforgiveable, while against the Other Two can be forgiven?

As for Protestantism, it is just the same thing that Catholics have always done. It is the rejection of perceived error. That is a Biblical idea also.

Trinity (the concept) is one way of interpretating Scriptures - one that is NOT inevitable. As to Protestantism, I find the Scriptures tell us to avoid divisiveness - not to proclaim ourselves the interpreter of Divine Word that disagrees with the community's interpretations.

Do you think Paul is saying that we exchange our old and new natures on an on-going basis

It should be readily apparent that we continue to battle the flesh, the old nature. Thus, we haven't "exchanged" our old self for a new self to completion yet. Yes, justification, how God views us, changes depending on our battle with this flesh. Justification is a process, not a one time action ONLY.

It seems that your view is that Baptism would only be effective until the next mortal sin, right?

Baptism does more than wash our sins away. It makes us children of God and begins our sanctification process. Our conversion to Christ begins. While mortal sin separates us from God, we have been given an experience that cannot be taken away. We have the seal of the Spirit. God will continue to provide graces to repent and come back to Him. Due to our initial baptism experience, it is more likely that we will return to Him.

Hell is an existence without God. Now whether that state means fire and brimstone, who can say?

All of your Scripture quotes can be taken in the spiritual sense. Fire is often used in Scripture in this way, not a literal fire, for example. The physical aspects of hell often suggest the emotional and spiritual torments that we would face knowing that we could have been with God, could have fulfilled the meaning of our existence, could have been in eternal happiness. The Church doesn't teach one definitive way or the other.

Ah, another one of those flexible Catholic teachings...

Regards

3,994 posted on 03/24/2006 4:05:56 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: jo kus
Why are sins against the Third Person of the Trinity unforgiveable, while against the Other Two can be forgiven?

I was just thinking of the following two passages, not being sure about what they meant:

Mark 3:28-29 : 28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Matt. 12:31-32 : 31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

---------------

As to Protestantism, I find the Scriptures tell us to avoid divisiveness - not to proclaim ourselves the interpreter of Divine Word that disagrees with the community's interpretations.

Scriptures may tell us that divisiveness should be avoided, as an ideal, but there is precedent that divisiveness can be for the good. ... Sodom also must have had a community interpretation of God. That didn't make them right. I still don't believe that popularity equals truth.

It should be readily apparent that we continue to battle the flesh, the old nature. Thus, we haven't "exchanged" our old self for a new self to completion yet. Yes, justification, how God views us, changes depending on our battle with this flesh.

So what is your interpretation of this verse? :

2 Cor. 5:17 : Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

Your interpretation must be that no one is in Christ during his physical life on earth, right? Or, I suppose you will say that people are in Christ sometimes and out of Christ at other times. Sometimes we are a new creation, but some other times we give that new creation up and go back to our old creation. Then we go back to the new creation again, and so forth throughout our lives. Do you really think a person who has no idea of Tradition, could possibly come to that conclusion from reading this verse?

Baptism does more than wash our sins away. It makes us children of God and begins our sanctification process. Our conversion to Christ begins. While mortal sin separates us from God, we have been given an experience that cannot be taken away. We have the seal of the Spirit.

I wasn't aware of the extra significance, so thanks for the clarification. But as (I think) we discussed, for you the holy "seal of the Spirit" is really more like a post-it note that can be torn off and stuck back on again over and over, as the situation warrants.

All of your Scripture quotes [about the nature of hell] can be taken in the spiritual sense.

As I have learned on this thread, scripture quotes can be taken in any way whatsoever, depending on the interpreter. Do you have an opinion on the physicality of hell?

4,101 posted on 03/27/2006 9:51:25 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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