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No, I do not think the Pharisees had true faith, nor did they love.

They certainly had faith in God and His existence. They were very aware of the Scriptures. And they directed their lives around trying to please God - thus, they did good deeds. They had faith, but it was a loveless faith, it was a faith that was not internalized.

So the Catholic interpretation of Eph. 2:8-9 is: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith plus cooperation -- and this is mostly not from yourselves, it is partly a gift of God, - not by works for pay, so that no one can boast." :)

Well, there isn't an official Catholic interpretation on this verse. However, based on my knowledge of the totality of the faith, I view this as such: We are called to obey God. God enables us to do it. He gives us the necessary gifts. He teaches us how to do it. He gives us His Spirit to HELP us choose the good. Thus, God is absolutely essential in our lives - we can only please God through faith. Thus, no one can boast of their OWN ability that came WITHOUT God. Everything we give to God, any act of love, etc., is a result of God's work within us. But we must be careful to balance this with the idea that God gives man free will to REJECT His grace. That is why Scriptures constantly urge men to CHOOSE life. To OBEY the Commandments. And to not allow God's Grace to fall in vain.

Here is a good verse that shows BOTH concepts. I believe that Protestantism only concentrates on the "either God does everything or man does everything". "by the grace of God I am what I am; and his grace towards me was not in vain, for I laboured more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." 1 Cor 15:10

See the interaction? See that we are a result of God's Grace? But see also how Paul notes that God's gifts were not wasted! It was not in vain! Doesn't this presuppose that man CAN ALLOW God's grace to fall in vain? Even a "saved" person?

What about this one?

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that didst kill the prophets and stone those who are sent unto thee, how often I desired to gather thy children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!" Mat 23:37

Isn't it clear that God is PINING for us? That God greatly desires us? He gives us so many gifts to come to Him, to choose Him. And yet, many still refuse. "And ye would not!" I hear exasperation in that voice. Frustration. But does this mean that God's will is frustrated? NOT if His will is for us to come to Him in love. Love cannot be forced. It is God's will that man choose Him freely.

Well, if you admit that a person can falsely claim faith, then doesn't that wipe out your proof from James above?

How? You are presuming that the person is falsely claiming faith, when in actuality, the person is mis-informed of his idea of what faith IS. An incorrect idea of faith will lead a person to "falsely" claim faith - which James sets about to correct. Faith comes with ethical teachings that we are bound to hold.

I suppose this means that I have no idea what you say faith really is. I have just never heard of the concept being split up like this.

Well, can a person be saved without love? If a man's faith does not include love, what good is it? It is dead. Catholics do not separate the two. I am using these Scriptures to illustrate what happens when you say "faith alone - without works of love".

Regards

They [the Pharisees] certainly had faith in God and His existence. They were very aware of the Scriptures. And they directed their lives around trying to please God - thus, they did good deeds. They had faith, but it was a loveless faith, it was a faith that was not internalized.

So in your view, faith is simply a belief in the existence of "a" God, even if it is the wrong one? (Clearly, the Pharisees did not believe in the correct God, as Jesus called them hypocrites.) I don't see that as faith at all. True and God-given faith must be in Christ. The Pharisees did not have this.

I believe that Protestantism only concentrates on the "either God does everything or man does everything". "by the grace of God I am what I am; and his grace towards me was not in vain, for I laboured more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." 1 Cor 15:10

I have acknowledged many times your saying that you believe that we do nothing good on our own, however, I still see that you give man individual credit. Free will demands this.

[continuing] See the interaction? See that we are a result of God's Grace? But see also how Paul notes that God's gifts were not wasted! It was not in vain! Doesn't this presuppose that man CAN ALLOW God's grace to fall in vain? Even a "saved" person?

I don't see the interaction at all, here, in terms of salvation because I don't think Paul was even remotely talking about salvation here. He was talking about his own preaching, and the grace God gave him to enable him to do so. God graces us in many different ways. Sure God may have graced me with the potential to be a great musician, but through my poor choices I might have blown that. I don't think it is the same at all with salvation. Those God chooses will be saved.

[On Matt. 23:37:] Isn't it clear that God is PINING for us? That God greatly desires us? He gives us so many gifts to come to Him, to choose Him. And yet, many still refuse. "And ye would not!" I hear exasperation in that voice. Frustration.

I don't agree that God pines for us. Why would He if He already knows the outcome? I do agree that it sounds like frustration, but I would put it in the same category as God asking Adam where he was because He didn't know. Jesus is teaching us what the non-elect look like, just as He teaches us what the elect do look like.

You are presuming that the person is falsely claiming faith, when in actuality, the person is mis-informed of his idea of what faith IS. An incorrect idea of faith will lead a person to "falsely" claim faith - which James sets about to correct. Faith comes with ethical teachings that we are bound to hold.

I have no idea what this means. :) So, a person can falsely claim faith, but still really have true faith? I still don't understand what you say faith does and does not include (i.e. love, etc.), where it comes from, and how much credit man deserves for his cooperation in his faith.

No, a person cannot be saved without love. I don't say "faith alone - without works of love", I say it is included in true faith, given by God. But you are separating the two because you hold that it is possible to have faith without love. That is separation. I think you'll say that God has something to do with faith, but as to love, you seem to put that all on man's choices. You say that love has to be a free will choice, which means uncoerced by God. You also say that God gives everyone all that he needs to be saved. That leaves the final power as to a man's salvation in his own hands. And yet, you still refuse to admit this.