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To: Forest Keeper
I wrote "Where is the reference point to what the writer INTENDED?

You responde "That depends on who you think the writer is, and how much of his/His own intent went into the writing.

How so? We both (I think) believe that God inspired the Scriptures through human Apostles. But what does that have to do with knowing the reference point?

For example. How do you know if Jesus was married? Did He have kids? Well, some supposed Scripture from the Gnostics say that He did. The Da Vinci Code makes the same claim. With all of these writings spread out on a table, the NT and the Gnostic writings, how do YOU pick and choose which is FROM God and which is NOT from God? Without a reference point - the Church - you wouldn't know much ABOUT God. If He was a Trinity, or ONE God ONE person, or if Jesus was an archangel, or if the Spirit was a person, etc....

But you don't really interpret the scripture at all, do you, even inside the Church?

LOL!!! Sure I do! What makes you think that? The Church has a broad way of looking at the entirety of Scripture. But they don't analyze and define EVERY SINGLE VERSE! They don't relegate definitions to each verse - "it can ONLY MEAN THIS". Not at all! There are only about a dozen verses that the Church says "this means 'x' and that is it." Most regarding the Sacraments. The we look to the Scriptures and interpret them according to the Church's deposit of faith given to it by the Apostles. Thus, we have been taught that man has free will, as I have posted previously from some of the Church Fathers who appear unanimous on the subject. Thus, when some one comes along and claims that the Scripture means something else, we defend the totality of God's revelation and look to the context of the Bible given this paradigm that we have been given.

Sure I read Scripture and look at Commentaries. But when I see something that I know is not correct - that is a false teaching, I ignore it. Commentaries are very helpful. Also, I have my own private ideas on Scripture. However, if I later learn that they are not in line with Catholic teachings, then I submit my obedience to the Church - the pillar and foundation of the truth. I am not the center of the universe. God is. So when He reveals THROUGH HIS CHURCH a particular teaching, it is up to me to form my conscience to God's teachings, not my own that disagree with them. But you would be surprised on how flexible the Church is on specific verses.

Regards

3,734 posted on 03/18/2006 2:33:02 PM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: jo kus
For example. How do you know if Jesus was married? Did He have kids? Well, some supposed Scripture from the Gnostics say that He did. The Da Vinci Code makes the same claim. With all of these writings spread out on a table, the NT and the Gnostic writings, how do YOU pick and choose which is FROM God and which is NOT from God? Without a reference point - the Church - you wouldn't know much ABOUT God. If He was a Trinity, or ONE God ONE person, or if Jesus was an archangel, or if the Spirit was a person, etc....

We do look at this very differently. I think you would say that God guided the Church, and the Church put together the correct books for the Bible. Of course, the Church was free to accept or reject God's guidance, and we have no idea if or to what extent that happened. Under my view, God moved the Church, or "forced" if you like, to pick the correct books. It is the same with the individual authors, God moved them, or "forced" if you like, to write the correct words. Under your view, men are to be congratulated for their choices in cooperating with God, and they deserve credit along with God. It was a team effort, although it does leave open the possibility for error since the Church was free to reject on even the smallest matter. Under mine, God did it all, so He gets all the credit. There was participation, but no cooperation.

There are only about a dozen verses that the Church says "this means 'x' and that is it." Most regarding the Sacraments. The we look to the Scriptures and interpret them according to the Church's deposit of faith given to it by the Apostles. Thus, we have been taught that man has free will, as I have posted previously from some of the Church Fathers who appear unanimous on the subject.

I think you may be splitting hairs with this. That lens of yours appears to be exhaustively constricting. Using your example, you are forced to accept the concept of free will. That, in turn, forces you to interpret hundreds or thousands of scriptures in a particular way. That isn't freedom at all. That is the Church informing you of your opinion. This idea is repeated over and over. With every fundamental principle, there is a geometric progression of forced interpretation of other scriptures.

But you would be surprised on how flexible the Church is on specific verses.

I might very well be. I just haven't seen it yet. So, please start disagreeing with yourself so I can see how this works. :)

3,916 posted on 03/22/2006 1:52:30 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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