jokus-I disagree. Paul recognized the Lord's voice - but Paul didn't HAVE to go to Damascus.
This is like saying Jonah didn't have to go to Nineveh. God zaps Paul with blindness and tells him to enter the city and "what he must do". And you say Paul had a choice??? Paul said God "set him apart even from my mother's womb" and Paul recognized it as God's grace (Gal 1:15).
It is astonishing to me on these posts to see how many do not really believe in the grace of God. There is no grace except some "general" grace given to all mankind. This was Pelagius' view. God's caring is reduced to metaphors, His magnificent work happenstance, and Christ teachings were only meant for the apostles-not for us. Although God has a fish swallow up a person, hardens someone's heart, or zaps someone with blindness many here still insist it's up to man to make the decision-not God. Man isn't REALLY that bad but he can be just like God if he really take on the cloak of Christ. After all Mary did it. There is no original sin. This would almost be laughable if it wasn't so horribly sad.
I'm only beginning to understand what a terrible lie this all is and how it has cloaked the hearts of many Christians. It denies the scripture. It denies God's grace to chose. It denies the active working of God throughout history. Your disagreement isn't with me but with the plain interpretation of the inspired word of God.
This is consistent with the actions of God in the Old Testament-the actions many seem willing to deny. It is not consistent with this "God loves everyone and really wants the best for them" crowd. Undoubtedly I will get the argument that I'm pulling the verse out of context as I apparently have pulled hundred of verses out of context. Perhaps our Lord Jesus was speaking just to the apostles?-NOT
This is like saying Jonah didn't have to go to Nineveh. God zaps Paul with blindness and tells him to enter the city and "what he must do". And you say Paul had a choice???
Paul could have interpreted this experience as something other than it was. Didn't the Pharisees see Christ IN ACTION? RAISING THE DEAD? A hardened heart will not turn to the Lord - because they will explain away all such attempts by the Lord to break through. Yes, Paul and Jonah had a choice. Jonah could have not said anything when the storm came up "it has nothing to do with me". No, Jonah was repentant and knew that this action was from God. Thus, he choose to conform to God's will, not out of necessity.
It is astonishing to me on these posts to see how many do not really believe in the grace of God.
WHO? What on earth are you talking about? Has anyone here said we do ANYTHING independently of God's grace? Stop trying to twist our arguments around to something that we are not saying. It's astonishing to me that you could make such an accusation.
This was Pelagius' view.
Pelagius said we can choose good without God. We don't need His initiative to receive faith. Is anyone making that statement here?
If God really wanted all men to be saved is this the action one would expect?
Again, you misunderstand Scripture. Christ says "I never knew you" DESPITE the "Lord, Lord", because that person is presumptuous of his salvation. By reciting the Sinner's Prayer, and going on and sinning all the more, Christ does NOT abide in that person. We can know God abides in us if we obey the Commandments with love. Yet, you would have it that God abides in even wicked "Christians" who commit half of the sins of 1 Cor 6:9-10 AFTER their "salvation"! Merely SAYING "Lord, Lord" isn't enough to justify such presumption. Isn't it clear throughout the Gospels that Christ expects ACTION from us?
This is consistent with the actions of God in the Old Testament-the actions many seem willing to deny
If you read the OT in light of the NT, it will make more sense to you. Otherwise, I can understand your confusion. Look at the Scriptures through the "mind" of Christ, the all-loving God who gave Himself up for the sake of the WORLD.
Regards
OK I’ll say it, Jonah didn’t have to go to Nineveh. He could have said no.
And you say Paul had a choice???
Yes.
Paul said God "set him apart even from my mother's womb" and Paul recognized it as God's grace (Gal 1:15).
True, and then and he responded to God’s grace by accepting it.
It is astonishing to me on these posts to see how many do not really believe in the grace of God.
It is astonishing to me on these posts to see how many do not really understand how the grace of God works in our lives.
It denies God's grace to chose.
You’ve got this backwards. Perhaps day you’ll figure it out.
It denies the active working of God throughout history.
It actually it proves it.
Your disagreement isn't with me but with the plain interpretation of the inspired word of God.
Your disagreement with us is based on your erroneous interpretation of the inspired word of God
If God really wanted all men to be saved is this the action one would expect?
Yes
Does this sound like purgatory?
This has nothing to do with your argument
Undoubtedly I will get the argument that I'm pulling the verse out of context as I apparently have pulled hundred of verses out of context.
Now your getting it.
We talked about it on this thread, did we not? Jonas is shown to exercise free will throughout the episode. I'll find my analysis of it a bit later.