And who gets the credit for our fall, FK?
Why does God causing our salvation suggest our mindlessness?
You believe that we are programmed for salvation or perdition from all eterntiy, that whether we are St. John the Baptist or Judas Iscariot we are just tools in his workshop.
Doesn't satan also have a lot to teach us? Doesn't he also draw us to him?
Satan teaches us nothing except to hate God, FK. He doesn't draw us to him. No one wants to be close to him. But, we all follow his deception. Few worship satan. He is not a god, for sure. Evil has no power unless we give in to it. It's that old addage "I am not violent, but I can be driven to violence." Satan knows that very well.
And who gets the credit for our fall, FK?
A fair question. As Harley said, God ordained the fall because He knew it was coming, could have stopped it, and didn't. Therefore, it must have served God's purpose for the fall to have happened. Because God does not author evil, I would call this an act of allowance, not an act of commission.
Salvation, OTOH, is most definitely an act of commission. Had God "allowed" every person to go through life without Him "interfering", then all mankind would be lost. That is why in this case I give Him "credit" for a proactive act. Besides, the word "credit" is normally associated with a good thing. In this case I think the word for the fall would be "blame", since all sin is bad. I do not blame God for the fall. He allowed to happen what He already knew would happen, but He did not zap Adam to cause him to sin. God stood aside and allowed this sin to happen. Had He not done so, then the entire nature of man would be completely different. Evidently, it served His purpose better to have things the way they are.
FK: "Why does God causing our salvation suggest our mindlessness?"
You believe that we are programmed for salvation or perdition from all eternity, that whether we are St. John the Baptist or Judas Iscariot we are just tools in his workshop.
OK, even accepting everything you say, how does that make us mindless? If you believe that God already knows everything that is going to happen, isn't that the same thing? From your side we can struggle with our free will, and search for wisdom, and seek God's grace all day long, but it is all a forgone conclusion. How is that not just as mindless? I don't think under either of our beliefs we are mindless. We certainly don't experience that, do we? As far as the collective experiences of humankind on earth are concerned, God has already seen this movie. But for us, every day is a new day. Despite God's omniscience, we are not robots from our POV.
Satan teaches us nothing except to hate God, FK. He doesn't draw us to him.
In my faith, one name for satan is the "great tempter". I believe that satan absolutely does draw us to him, because that definitionally draws us away from God. That's where satan wants us. If you don't think satan was trying to draw Jesus to him in the desert, then what was that whole scene about?