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To: stripes1776; kosta50
You make Dionysius' point for him. If man corrupts himself, that corruption does not come from God.

What we disagree about is Total Depravity. Christianity has never subscribed to this doctrine--it is an invention of Calvin.

God doesn't consider man to be evil, but under the influence of evil.


3,541 posted on 03/13/2006 6:06:03 PM PST by HarleyD ("A man's steps are from the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24 (HNV))
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To: HarleyD; kosta50
What we disagree about is original sin. This wasn't an invention of Calvin but is documented through Augustine writings.

You have Calvin and Augustine viewed throught the eyes of Calvin and scripture interpreted through the eyes of Calvin. Where is +Theophilus (god lover) of Antioch, +Irenaeus, +Athanasius of Alexandria, +Basil, +Gregory of Nazianzus, +Gregory of Nyssa, +John Chrysostom, +Cyril of Alexandria, +Macarius, +Maximus the Confessor, +John Damascene, +Simeon the New Theologian, +Greogory Palamas?

Man corrupts himself but this is all part of God's plan. The problem I find with a lot of non-Calvinist folks is they don't understand that Calvinism does not make God the "author of evil". It simply states that God ordained Adam step, Adam fell and the rest is history.

Well, what Calvinists don't understand is that most Christians don't view God as a master computer programmer.

I gave you about five verses that states otherwise.

I don't filter scripture under the lens of Calvin. I study how the Fathers, saints, and theologians of the church understood scripture and the experience of their participation in the life of the Holy Trinity throughout the 2000 year history of Christianity. In my opinion, this is the only thing that can prepare the ground for reading scripture.

Incredibly you ignore all these verses and make the statement that God doesn't consider man to be evil

I don't play Jeopardy: "Alex, can I have 'One verse quotes from the Bible' for 200?" You can twist it and turn it any way you want. How did the Fathers, saints, and theologians understand their experience of the Holy Trinity over the past 2000 years? Now that is a category that can help to understand scripture.

3,544 posted on 03/13/2006 7:09:07 PM PST by stripes1776
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