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To: jo kus
God gradually revealed Himself - first hazily through the prophets of the OT, and more concretely and completely through Jesus Christ.

Where does the Scripture say that the Spirit is PERMANENTLY in us?

That's utterly false. While Christ mentions hell on several occasions, He mentions love numerous times.

God's wrath is not seen as an active power that reprobates, but a passive one that allows the wicked to "dig their own grave".

God desires that ALL men be saved


3,406 posted on 03/09/2006 9:58:14 AM PST by HarleyD ("A man's steps are from the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24 (HNV))
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To: HarleyD
God did not change in character or nature from the Old to the New. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

HE didn't change, but man's understanding of Him changed, correct? The OT did not have total understanding of God's attributes - unless properly read in light of the NT. Thus, the Jews had difficulties with a suffering servant as the Messiah...

(Regarding Ephesians quote) Being sealed doesn't mean that WE will infallibly go to heaven, nor is an indication of permanent presence. Being marked by God is only the first step in the process, our first installment. The many verses I have given you quite recently show that even a "marked" person can fall away from God, returning to the vomit of his former life (says Peter)

I would suggest some research but you'll find that I completely correct on this particular matter.

I disagree. Christ talks about love. It is His only commandment - to love others as He had loved us. Christ mentions hell and punishment for those who turn away from God. But His teachings on the fulfilment of the Law, esp. seen in the Sermon on the Mount, are based on love. His table habits, His view on legalism - based on love. His whole life is based on love of man, even though we were in sin. I think your reading of the Gospels are incorrect and miss the point. One of Jesus' main purpose of teaching men was to show us what God was like, in human form. To model Jesus is to see God in action in human form. All based on love - not vengeful wrath.

The flooding of the world and drowning just about all the inhabitances is not a passive response I would say.

That is true. But that doesn't discount all of everything else I have said. It is something that is beyond me, except that God does things for His own reasons. Because God reaches out actively in time doesn't mean that He actively reprobates.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ...who is protected by the power of God through faith..." 1 Peter 1:3-5

This doesn't say anything about God actively condemning the reprobate. It merely says what Catholics already say - that God predestines the elect and actively secures their salvation. On this subject, where we disagree is our knowledge of WHO the elect are. You seem to have inside knowledge of this, to include 20 years from now, that you will remain the elect, despite all of the many verses I quote you to the contrary. How about this one from Peter?

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-10

Regards

3,407 posted on 03/09/2006 11:35:46 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; AlbionGirl
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ...who is protected by the power of God through faith..." -- 1 Peter 1:3-5

Amen, Harley.

"God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.

For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength.

He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work.

Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places.

Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north.

By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened.

Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud:

And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth.

He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy...

Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict.

Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart." -- Job 37:5-13;23-24


3,411 posted on 03/09/2006 7:11:39 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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