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To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD; AlbionGirl
I was pointing out that since Mary is so cherished in the Church, it just seems odd that extremely important doctrine concerning her, that differentiates her from all others, is no where in scripture.

Not only are there no such references in Scripture, we are expressly cautioned NOT to pray to anyone but Christ. (I posted the following Scripture the other day. I really like it, so I'll post it again. 8~)

"Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." -- Acts 17:22-31


3,385 posted on 03/08/2006 11:45:18 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I was pointing out that since Mary is so cherished in the Church, it just seems odd that extremely important doctrine concerning her, that differentiates her from all others, is no where in scripture. Not only are there no such references in Scripture, we are expressly cautioned NOT to pray to anyone but Christ. (I posted the following Scripture the other day. I really like it, so I'll post it again. 8~)

There are only two saints I have real affection for, the first is Our Lord's Blessed Mother and the other is John the Baptist.

The Magnificat is one of the most beautiful prayers ever, and I think that Mary's plaintive cry to God, her thanks for raising the lowly and lowering the haughty hearkens back to some of the Psalms, where David is praising God for smiting his enemies and the proud and the unjust. There is a continuity there that I really like.

However, I was never really able to form a bond with her as the creature that Catholics assert she is or was. When I would kneel before her statue, I was never able to formulate a natural dialogue. I was always asking myself how to phrase my prayer, should it be "dear Mary, please relay the following to Jesus for me..." Always very, very unnatural for me.

Part of the reason for that is because as a kid a nun had put it in my head that I was immoral, and she also put it in writing, so I never knew how I could approach this creature who was sinless from beginning to end. How could it be possible for me, filthy inside as I was, to approach this pure figure? It wasn't as if she could forgive my sins, only Jesus could do that, and as I grew to have a deeper relationship with Jesus, to approach her seemed unnecessary, and also seemed to take something away from the Power and Glory of Christ. That, coupled with my sense that the unclean couldn't approach the clean, made her somewhat of an impediment to me in my relationship with Jesus.

Also, in Scripture, the dialogue that Jesus has with his Mother seems a little on the harsh side, and so you never get from Scripture anything near a mirror image of the way Our Lord's Blessed Mother is asserted to be by Catholicism. But neither can I totally forget her.

The Passion of The Christ did an excellent job in portraying Mary as a Mother, the scene where she is soaking up His Blood in anguished fervor is how I see Our Lord's Blessed Mother: The Mary of the Magnificat and of her Son's Passion.

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

These Scriptures really speak to me, Dr. E., thanks.

3,399 posted on 03/09/2006 6:58:33 AM PST by AlbionGirl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; AlbionGirl
... Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." -- Acts 17:22-31

Thanks for the great passage, Dr. E.! You are right, only God is worthy of our prayers. To me, prayers to saints are a missed opportunity to communicate with our Savior and Lord.

3,487 posted on 03/12/2006 5:45:19 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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