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To: jo kus
FK: "Do you ever worry about it? [salvation]"

Not really. ... As long as I have not mortally sinned, I plod on, "knowing" that today, I am in Christ.

Thanks for your full answer. This reminds me of a question I had about confession earlier, but I think I forgot to ask. :) Is there a standardized protocol for when to go to confession? I mean, is it done on an "as needed" basis, or is it better to go regularly, say, once a week or once a month?

We are always children of the Father, even those who are baptised and subsequently fall away. Consider the Prodigal Son parable. When if famine DIDN'T strike the land? Would the son have returned? Probably not. My point is that sons and daughters sometimes separate THEMSELVES from their parents, they disinherit themselves.

To refresh your memory, only because I am so far behind, this came from your statement "To us, Baptism is for the remission of all sins. It makes us children of God." I then responded by asking if you meant foster children. My point was to say that under your system, God's children can fall away and cease being His children, or as you clarify, "disinherit themselves". I disagree concerning the elect.

Let's use your example of the Prodigal Son. And, let's say you are right and that if the famine didn't come the son would never have returned. Would that have meant that the son disinherited himself? I would say that's impossible because the son already received his rightful inheritance before he even left. The father sealed his faith in the child from the beginning. (Of course, the analogy breaks down a little because the father did not have the independent power to bring the son back, but God certainly does, and I believe He uses it on His elect.) It was impossible for the son to disinherit himself, just as it is impossible for the elect to do the same. No one can snatch us out of His hands.

3,357 posted on 03/08/2006 1:52:02 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
Is there a standardized protocol for when to go to confession? I mean, is it done on an "as needed" basis, or is it better to go regularly, say, once a week or once a month?

One of the Church's precepts is that we go to Confession at least once a year. This is like a doctor telling us we should eat at least 500 calories a day! For us, receiving the sacraments is paramount to the Christian life. We receive Christ's graces through them. We are told to go to confession when we have sinned mortally. Also, we are encouraged to go more often to help us combat our other faults that re-occur, the sins that we seem to commit all the time. By directing our attention to them through the examination of self and confession, we are aided to help fight these sins.

God's children can fall away and cease being His children, or as you clarify, "disinherit themselves". I disagree concerning the elect.

First, Baptism leaves an indelible mark. We will always be God's children. But as a result of our own separation, we walk away from God - sometimes, permanently - just like children sometimes disown their own parents (although they are still children of their parents). Regarding the elect, I agree with you. They will always be brought back. But I will disagree with you until the end that you or I KNOW we are of the elect. Thus, we OURSELVES cannot make the claim that we will NEVER turn away from God. We just don't know.

Would that have meant that the son disinherited himself? I would say that's impossible because the son already received his rightful inheritance before he even left.

I think that takes the story beyond what Christ meant. Otherwise, there would be no reason to return to the Father.

It was impossible for the son to disinherit himself, just as it is impossible for the elect to do the same. No one can snatch us out of His hands.

How was it "impossible"? If the son never returned, he disinherits himself from his father. We aren't talking about his money - he spent all of that. The elect cannot disinherit themselves, because God will cause something (famine) to happen that He knows will turn the man's free will back onto course. Does God do this for others? Yes, but their free will will resist God's "famines". The Progigal Son realized he had sinned. Those that God foresees are the reprobate will NOT realize they have sinned - even despite the famines of their lives.

Again over and over again, we don't know we are of the elect. All of this talk about "the elect will prevail", is a moot point, because we don't know we are absolutely of the elect before that day of judgment. THEN, we will be able to look back on our life and see how we chose God. We will see that we were of the elect all along. But we don't know that now. There is no way we can predict our future with our human knowledge. God knows. But we don't.

Regards

3,363 posted on 03/08/2006 9:29:16 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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