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To: stripes1776; HarleyD; kosta50; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
I agree with Kolokotronis, your comments (Stripes) on the difference between the two Apostolic Churches is a good point, if one considered us from before Vatican 2. However, I would like to point out that the Western Church has indeed moved away from some of the teachings of the 1700-1950 regarding moral theology - that obedience to God's commandments were the height of morality. Now, we are moving back towards the Church Fathers, St. Augustine and St. Aquinas' concentration on the virtues and the Love of God as our primary teachings behind moral theology.

In other words, we are moving away from the idea (not entirely, of course, but making it secondary) that our primary concern is obedience to the commandments or go to Hell. Now, we are teaching the New Law as the Fathers taught it - Faith, Hope, and Love being the impetus for moral theology. Now, by becoming like Christ (divinization), we will already be obeying the commandments anyways. We teach that the height of moral theology is to become another Christ - NOT obedience to the commandments.

One could argue "why the West was like that in the past". Certainly, one could point to many things. Cultures develop differently, and we have been subject to combating different heresies - this sometimes causes an overreaction in the other direction. Thus, Pelagianism and Jansenism have "molded" the West more than the East. We are who we are as a result of our ancestor's battles with these heresies.

Regards

3,234 posted on 03/05/2006 12:59:38 PM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: jo kus; stripes1776; HarleyD; kosta50; Forest Keeper

"In other words, we are moving away from the idea (not entirely, of course, but making it secondary) that our primary concern is obedience to the commandments or go to Hell. Now, we are teaching the New Law as the Fathers taught it - Faith, Hope, and Love being the impetus for moral theology. Now, by becoming like Christ (divinization), we will already be obeying the commandments anyways. We teach that the height of moral theology is to become another Christ - NOT obedience to the commandments."

Very well said, Joe. Obedience to the Comandments, however, is on the path to theosis. You have seen me quote the blessed Archimadrite Sophrony before:

"... while we are still in this life we shall often waver in our self-determining, hesitating whether to fulfill the commandments or give way to our passions. Gradually, as we struggle, the mystery of Christ will be revealed to us if we devote ourselves totally to obeying His precepts. The moment will come when heart and mind are so suffused by the vision of the infinite holiness and humility of the God-Christ that our whole being will rise in a surge of love for God."

This comment is in accord with the teachings of +Symeon the New Theologian (and other Fathers):

"A house roof is held up by the foundations and the rest of the building, and the foundation and the rest of the building are laid to hold the roof - since both are necessary and useful - and neither is the roof built without the foundations and the rest of the house, nor can foundations and walls without roof make a building fit to live in. So it is with the soul: the grace of the Holy Spirit is preserved by keeping the commandments, and the keeping of the commandments is the foundation laid for receiving the gifts of God's grace. Neither does the grace of the Holy Spirit remain in us without our obeying the commandments, nor can obeying the commandments be useful and salutary without Divine grace."

and

"I say that the ineffable speech which Paul heard spoken in Paradise were the eternal good things which eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived.

These things, which God has prepared for those who love Him, are not protected by heights, nor enclosed in some secret place, nor hidden in the depths, nor kept at the ends of the earth or sea.

They are right in front of you, before your very eyes. So, what are they?

Together with the good things stored up in heaven, these are the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ which we see every day, and eat and drink. These, we avow, are those good things.

Outside of these you will not be able to find one of the things spoken of, even if you were to traverse the whole of creation.

If you do want to know the truth of my words, become holy by practicing God's commandments and then partake of the holy things, and you will know precisely the force of what I am telling you."


3,237 posted on 03/05/2006 1:08:20 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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