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To: jo kus
Thus, our idea of "saved" does not include "eternal heaven". When we discuss eternal heaven, we realize we (Catholics) individually do not know - it is God's choice and we do not know absolutely His mind on the subject.

I hadn't thought of looking at it that way before, thanks for the perspective. I know you've said that you can have a "good idea" of your ultimate salvation, which shows some confidence. Do you ever worry about it? I'm just trying to imagine how I would feel without assurance. I think I would lie awake at night, wondering about it. :) I know we disagree on the "fear and trembling" verse, but I think you don't believe it means that we are supposed to go through our lives shivering in fear, right?

To us, Baptism is for the remission of all sins. It makes us children of God.

Don't you mean foster children? :) True children are children forever, regardless of anything they do. Foster children are only children for a time, and can come and go.

3,178 posted on 03/03/2006 4:18:21 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
I know you've said that you can have a "good idea" of your ultimate salvation, which shows some confidence. Do you ever worry about it? I'm just trying to imagine how I would feel without assurance.

Not really. I examine my walk with Christ daily, and find that although I have my own shortcomings and stumblings daily, I see some progress, Christ's work is gradually changing me. I don't see my stumblings as separating myself from Christ. We don't have to be perfect in this world. Purgatory is available, a wonderful mercy, in that small stumblings will not keep me from Christ, even if I were to die unexpectedly. As long as I have not mortally sinned, I plod on, "knowing" that today, I am in Christ. The only thing that can separate us from God is a mortal sin. We persevere in confidence, in hope in the Lord. It is a different perspective because it keeps us humbly persevering in Christ.

I know we disagree on the "fear and trembling" verse, but I think you don't believe it means that we are supposed to go through our lives shivering in fear, right?

Correct. I think Paul is directing this at people who believe their work here is done. Paul gives various examples of people who had that attitude in the OT - and look what happened to them. We will be glorified with the Lord IF we suffer with the Lord. (Romans 8:17). Thus, we continue to give of ourselves in service to others. We continue to walk in love.

Don't you mean foster children? :)

We are adopted children of the Lord... "ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." Romans 8:15. Jesus is the only natural Son of the Father, but through the waters of Baptism, we, too, can cry Abba, Father...

We are always children of the Father, even those who are baptised and subsequently fall away. Consider the Prodigal Son parable. When if famine DIDN'T strike the land? Would the son have returned? Probably not. My point is that sons and daughters sometimes separate THEMSELVES from their parents, they disinherit themselves.

Regards

3,184 posted on 03/03/2006 5:20:37 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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