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To: kosta50; annalex; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg
FK: "... as I don't think small children are held accountable either."

Except, that it does not fit into your "double-predestination" belief. If a child commits sin it is no different than, say, Judas betraying Christ. They both commit evil because it is "in God's plan" and "for His purpose."

Actually Kosta, based on my statement, in the first part of your response you may have a very valid point. I suppose that if I am to be consistent I have to say that it's possible that some young children who die are not of the elect and are therefore lost. I am unaware of a teaching on my side that gives an automatic pass to those who have not yet reached the age of reason. There COULD be one, though, I just don't know about it yet. :)

Of course, the second part of your statement goes back to your relentless refusal to understand our view of God's plan. You still think that our side believes that God causes evil. OK. My side has been uniformly consistent on this for 3,000+ posts, and yet you won't acknowledge anything. The folks on my side have explained it more than 20 times, I don't know what else to say.

3,143 posted on 03/02/2006 2:49:26 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
Of course, the second part of your statement goes back to your relentless refusal to understand our view of God's plan...The folks on my side have explained it more than 20 times, I don't know what else to say

Oh, others "on my side" share my lack of that understanding too — and it appears the vast majority of Protestants as well!

I can think of several reasons for that:

(1) your side is not explaining itself clearly
(2) the rest of the world is too stupid to understand Calvinists

But, more importantly, it is because you have not shown me that your theology does not lead to the preposterous idea that God is the cause and source of sin/evil.

FK, your theology denies that God gave man free will and that exercising free will is God's will. But in order for that freedom to be true, God cannot take credit for our decisions. And since sin is separation from God, evil is our doing and not a creature of God. However, that is not possible in your theology.

I will do this one more time, FK, and make it as simple as possible. According to your theology the following must be true:

(1) what God wills, God makes
(2) everything that exists is according to His will
(3) ergo, God wills and makes everything including sin/evil

Yet you take exception to evil being of God, which is not consistent. Show me why is everything for God's pleasure, and purpose, except evil. This is why even Augustine backed off. But, in order to be consistent, which is what you keep trying, it must follow that if everything you do is God's will, then even your sin is His doing; lest you resist His will, which is impossible.

If you can not resist God, then if God says to you "kill your children for My pleasure and purpose" you would do it? Preposterous, right? Well, then, explain to me how does Calvinism or whatever it is that you propose here, explain Hitler? Was he doing God's work unto His pleasure and purpose? And, is he then ultimately responsible for his crimes or is it (God forgive me) all for God's pleasure? So, is the Holocaust then part of God's plan and for His pleasure????!!!!

3,155 posted on 03/02/2006 8:08:47 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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