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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
OI. Back to Tradition.

Tradition has two meanings. First, Tradition is WHAT is delivered. It is a teaching. This is the meaning of Tradition found in Scriptures, when Paul tells the Thessalonians to hold onto the Apostles' teachings. Secondly, Tradition is the way and means by which the teaching is delivered. Again, back to 2 Thessalonians, Paul told them to hold onto written and unwritten teachings. Thus, immediately, we have two definitions of Tradition.

As I have said, when we speak of the unwritten word of God, so called oral tradition, we don't mean it was NEVER written down. (Even the liturgy and the sacraments are "written down", although in both cases, they are "acted" rather than read to the congregation.) Kolo is correct in that something does not necessarily have to be "declared" by the Church heirarchy as infallible before being thought of as such. However, Councils more CLEARLY DEFINE that something really is infallible tradition.

God's Revelation is given to us in three ways: 1. The Scripture, God's Word in writing by the inspiration of the Spirit. 2. Sacred Apostolic Tradition, God's Word entrusted to the Apostles by God that is NOT EXPLICITLY in Scriptures. It is living in that it is practiced, thus we also call Tradition "living". Sometimes, it takes the Church some self-examination to determine whether something is Divine or not. 3. The teaching office of the Church, the Magesterium. It is God's desire that men are able to interpret God's Revelation to us in Scriptures and Tradition. It is the responsibility of the Apostles' successors to present this for belief to God's People.

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are from the same source, God. Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with His own "always, to the close of the age". (Dei Verbum, 9)

And finally, yes, there are Sacred Traditions, those that are meant for all people of all times within the Church, those that are considered Divinely given; and those that are Ecclesiastical Traditions, those that are meant for all people of a certain time or some people of a certain time. They are given by the Church to aid in the Christian's walk towards Christ. An example is making the sign of the cross on our forehead when entering the Church. Not divinely given through the Apostles.

Hope this helps. Got to go now, Confession time.

Brother in Christ

3,053 posted on 02/27/2006 5:40:30 PM PST by jo kus
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To: jo kus; Kolokotronis
Kolo is correct in that something does not necessarily have to be "declared" by the Church hierarchy as infallible before being thought of as such. However, Councils more CLEARLY DEFINE that something really is infallible tradition.

This is the part that I'm struggling with. How is one to know what is or is not infallible Church teaching? How is one to know what is or is not infallible Church Tradition? You said that Tradition is what is delivered, and is the manner of delivery. I'm trying to figure out where you all hang your hats. :)

For example, if I said to my friend Jack Bauer, "Jack, the Catholics and Orthodox believe that the Protoevangelion is part of their Holy Tradition, take a look." Then, if he read it he might very well think that you all believe every word of it. I have been told that this is not the case, although it does contain elements of truth that you do believe in. I feel I would be misrepresenting you if I said that you all fully believe in all Holy Tradition. I don't want to misrepresent you, which is why I keep harping on this. :) If you show me something and say that it is Tradition, I just want to know whether I can safely assume that you believe in it fully, partially, or to what degree.

I have been assuming through this whole thing that you think that all real truth is infallible, just from a common sense standpoint. Am I missing something there?

God's Revelation is given to us in three ways: ... 2. Sacred Apostolic Tradition, God's Word entrusted to the Apostles by God that is NOT EXPLICITLY in Scriptures.

OK, this I didn't know, or didn't remember. So, to be one of the three legs of authority, any Tradition must have come directly from one of the Apostles. Good enough.

3,170 posted on 03/03/2006 1:46:06 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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