Frankly, I find that illogical. Why would God ensure ONLY the first generation was infallibly teaching Christ's Gospel AT ALL if He didn't intend to ALWAYS protect it???
Are you saying that Paul wrote that "...the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15) ONLY while HE was alive??? God would have the Church as the pillar of truth only for some 30 years! There is no evidence of that ANYWHERE in the Scriptures, or the writings of ANYONE who came after the first generation! Tell me, why would God only protect the first generation? Don't you think He would want the second generation to have the Truth - by which we are set free??? Are we to believe that God only preached the Gospel unadultered to the very first generation? I can see why Protestantism is so confused...
I would attempt to know by measuring any teaching against the Bible.
Does the Bible ever make itself as the measuring stick of what we believe?
So, God is not the pillar and foundation of the Truth? There are verses that say this?
"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
I am not saying that God is not TRUTH. But His Church is for us, for us humans here in the visible world, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Without it, we wander between various doctrines that happen to tickle our ears. Men's intellect is clouded. We NEED the Church, an INFALLIBLE guide, to tell us what Christ taught and objectively so. In the visible world, Christ acts through His Church. Whether He is ministering to people through the ministry of Reconciliation, whether He is healing them of their spiritual wounds, whether He is giving "birth" to them by being "born from above", whether He is sharing of His total self to us through the Eucharist, or whether He is giving us the Truth - the preachings given to the Apostles that have found their way to us.
I don't believe that popularity equals truth.
Since when did being Catholic equate to being "popular"? But that is to be expected, as Christ said that His Church would suffer, just as He did.
But, as I said before, I don't see baptism as necessarily critical.
That is YOUR opinion. You are not infallible, and you would certainly admit that you might be wrong. IF you can be wrong, how can you KNOW you even are "saved"? Christ didn't leave us orphaned. He gave us an infallible guide to KNOW what He left us. The Truth. We KNOW Christ's teachings. (well, "we" don't, but the Church teaches it to those willing to know it). WE are certain that Baptism IS critical for salvation. The early Church who heard the words of the Apostles testify to its necessity - both inside and outside of Scripture, regardless of your opinion.
The problem with your means of coming to Scripture is that you rely totally on your OWN knowledge - what you come to rationalize and what you come across as you read. Did God really intend that we stumble across His teacings, some of them being correct, others not? Did God intend that men have a Master's Degree in Scripture exegesis? To be able to speak the original languages? Hardly. This is a works salvation, brother. You are relying on your own ability to know God's Truth, rather than rely on the Spirit guiding His Church to bring us to all truths.
Faith is what is critical. I can't say I know for sure on this, but it makes sense to me that the vast majority of those who are saved and have achieved any reasonable level of sanctification, choose to be baptized, at least if they never have been, because they know Jesus said we should be
The vast majority of Jews were circumcised into the People of God at the age of eight days. Jesus said "do not keep the little ones away from me". But that is what you do by making your own faith the only means by which we come to God. You are saying that one must EARN God's salvation by believing enough. If you don't believe enough, then your sinner's prayer didn't "take" and your salvation was never accomplished. I find this an interesting turning of the tables...Correct me if I am wrong, brother, but aren't you saying that unless one has enough faith, one cannot come to God? But faith is entirely a gift!
No, God has given His salvation freely to people. For nearly 2000 years, the vast majority of God's people first came into His presence as infants. The Jews understood this concept of "free gift"! The baby did nothing to earn salvation. The parents and community stood in proxy for the infant - promising to raise the child in the faith. Christianity merely continued this with infant baptism.
I can't think of any people I know, whom I'm guessing are saved, who have not been baptized either as an infant or a believer, or as in my case, both :).
God works through the ritual of Baptism, as He promised that He would, as prefigured by Christ's own baptism.
Regards
Frankly, I find that illogical. Why would God ensure ONLY the first generation was infallibly teaching Christ's Gospel AT ALL if He didn't intend to ALWAYS protect it???
I don't see it as any more illogical than the Apostles being able to pass down some supernatural powers, but not others. If only priests today could walk around and do physical healings, don't you think that would do wonders for attracting people to the faith? But, for whatever reason, God chose not to arrange it that way.
As for protecting the Church, I do believe God continued to do that. Wasn't the Reformation about the views that some had that the Catholic hierarchy was negligent in its duties to cooperate with continuing correct teaching? Who's to say that the Reformation wasn't God actually protecting the Church? :)
Are you saying that Paul wrote that "...the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15) ONLY while HE was alive??? God would have the Church as the pillar of truth only for some 30 years!
No, I'm not saying that, we just disagree on the exclusivity of the keys to God's Church, the authority of the Bible, etc.
Does the Bible ever make itself as the measuring stick of what we believe?
It does if you believe it is God's word, and not the word of men (with "guidance").
Since when did being Catholic equate to being "popular"?
Since there are around 2 billion of you and only several hundred million of us. There are also more Muslims than bonafide Protestants. (Of course, there is no comparison between Islam and Catholicism.)
FK: "But, as I said before, I don't see baptism as necessarily critical."
That is YOUR opinion. You are not infallible, and you would certainly admit that you might be wrong. ... He gave us an infallible guide to KNOW what He left us. The Truth. We KNOW Christ's teachings. (well, "we" don't, but the Church teaches it to those willing to know it). WE are certain that Baptism IS critical for salvation. ...
Sure, I could be wrong on some things. I can admit that. You can't. Your belief is governed by men. They tell you that God leads them and you believe them. That is fine. They just don't lead me. God does instead.
You are saying that one must EARN God's salvation by believing enough. If you don't believe enough, then your sinner's prayer didn't "take" and your salvation was never accomplished. I find this an interesting turning of the tables...Correct me if I am wrong, brother, but aren't you saying that unless one has enough faith, one cannot come to God? But faith is entirely a gift!
I'm taking this whole statement as a good natured ribbing my brother. :) You've suffered through too many of my posts to think that is what we believe! :)
God works through the ritual of Baptism, as He promised that He would, as prefigured by Christ's own baptism.
But Christ was Baptized after the age of reason, and as a believer, exactly how we do it. :)