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To: Kolokotronis; HarleyD; annalex; jo kus; kosta50
FK to Kosta: "I would respectfully disagree about "begotten" because I see it as referring to the "man" Jesus, who was obviously "begotten". I would say that "The Son" was in full existence well before He was "begotten"." But FK, the Creed says "...begotten of the Father before all ages...."

I have always assumed that Baptists, indeed all Christians, accept the Nicene Creed (either with or without the filioque). Was I wrong about the Baptists?

Well, to be honest, I'm not sure. While most of it seems to be OK, I know we wouldn't agree with the baptism part. :) But on the word "begotten", I'm just not sure what it means. In different translations, John 3:16 has "only begotten son" and "one and only son". So, I have always thought of it referring to the human side of Jesus, using a dictionary sense of "beget". I could be wrong. Here's what I don't get in the Creed:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; ...

I don't know how to reconcile "begotten" with "not made", while still keeping the idea that Christ and the Father are both without beginning and neither existed before the other.

2,939 posted on 02/23/2006 3:16:07 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
I don't know how to reconcile "begotten" with "not made"

FK, I believe the correct word is "generated." You have to understand that even the word "Son" and "Father" are anthropomorphisms which leads to human-like images in our minds, which we are to be ever so aware of lest we create God in our own image!

But such anthropomorphisms are needed for our way of expressing the indescribable God, keeping in mind that they are limited and imperfect renditions of Perfection.

The Father is often referred to as the Wisdom and the Son the Word. Wisdom generates or begets the Word, the process being unidirectional, or one-way. The Word possesses all the attributes of the Wisdom save for the begetting, and hence the "sonship" in anthropomorphic terms.

So, the Son is not "made" but is an expression of the Wisdom. I am sure you don't refer to your words or your character as being "made" either. Your words are part of you, and so are your thoughts and your character. What you make is not you, is not part of you, as one being, but something else, another being, but of you.

Thus, God's creation is not God, but of God. That's why the Bible says "My ways are not your ways and My thoughts are not your thoughts."

2,943 posted on 02/23/2006 3:46:28 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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