I'm sure that Christ intends that His Church remains operative until His return. I do see it making sense that God graced the first generation with some special abilities in order to get the ball rolling and further establish that Christianity was real.
The way our difference breaks down to me is that we just disagree on how much God delegates. I mean, my side has gotten pounded how many times for saying that God runs everything, right? :) So, my side clearly does not believe that God abandons us if we do not accept the authority of the RCC. We believe God is in absolute control. I suppose we believe that God handles directly what you later say is what the Church does: "Christ's teaching ministry. His healing ministry. His reconciling ministry." Your view seems to be that God has given more responsibility to man, and yes I know that all this is with God's guidance. :) What can I say if I champion God's sovereignty? It's possible.
FK: "If you, however, take a verse reasonably subject to interpretation at its face value, then that is unusual for Catholicism.
That's not fair.
You're right, I shouldn't have said it that way. I'm sorry. This Romans 3 thing just gets me so frustrated sometimes. :)
Thus, as a Catholic, I COULD believe that Genesis 1-3 is not meant literally - but there is not infallible proof that God DIDN'T create the world in 6 days.
I had to change my answer here because you later say that the Church does not have an official position on this. I happen to believe in a young earth, and have always had trouble repelling the "scientific" arguments.
No, brother, we do look at the literal interpretations - such as John 6:48-58...
LOL! :)
When people see our actions, they give glory to God. They recognize Christ working in the world today, 2006, not just in 33 AD. Thus, we are the CONTINUATION of the enfleshment of the Word of God. WE, the Body of Christ, continue His earthly presence, making visible the love of God for mankind.
Thank you for the verses, and I do agree with what you are saying in this section. I'm just not wild about the idea of being left out of the ministry. :) Our side feels like we participate in the Great Commission too.
In other words, if a person has an "experience" of God being a Duality, rather than a Trinity of One God, how would you know WHICH experience is correct?
Well, at least in this example, wouldn't the Bible be able to take care of this itself?
FK: But even good Catholics cannot agree on it. Even good hierarchy cannot agree on it.
All "good" Catholics agree on infallible teachings of the faith. ...
I think when I said this I was thinking of all the disagreements among the Fathers on various issues as have been noted on this thread. Is the answer that at the time, these issues had not been resolved infallibly?
If Jesus could do something that the Father was not doing or involved in, we'd have two Gods, correct?
Yes, that's how I see it as well.
That is incorrect. A mortal sin, whether it is murder, or stealing, or whatever, is a sin that "kills" the sanctifying grace that is within us. We no longer can enter heaven in this state.
You are saying what I thought it meant, so I just stated it poorly. I thought that a mortal sin did separate the person from God, which is certainly serious, but I was surprised at how "small" a sin it would (intuitively) take to reach the level of mortal sin. I was trying to say that "mortal sin" sounds like a big sin, but it doesn't have to be by what most people would consider "big sin". What puzzled me is that I thought mortal sins were much more common than what the name sounds like, and you seemed to hint that they are relatively rare?
God Bless
God rarely mediated "directly" with His people. Invariably, He did it through a prophet, a patriarch, the Apostles, and Jesus Christ - who is the fullness of God's mediation to mankind. We don't see that after the first generation, God suddenly removed His special care and coming to His people. We don't see a reason why. We don't see this in Scriptures. We don't see it in the writings of the Church Fathers. They all believed that God continued to operate through His Church - both the hierarchy on one level, and the entire Church on another level. For an individual's spiritual well-being, the Spirit came to that person. To define doctrine - what we believe - the Spirit speaks through those left to guard the faith, teaching what the Apostles taught. Is there any Scripture that says that Christ no longer gives His Church the power to continue Christ's teachings as seen in Matthew 28:20 after the first generation? This seems to be a Protestant addition to Scripture here.
I happen to believe in a young earth, and have always had trouble repelling the "scientific" arguments.
Quite frankly, it doesn't matter one way or the other to me. Currently, the evidence of science seems stacked against the young earth scenario, and God created nature, which doesn't lie. So either man is totally lost on the age of the earth, or Gen. 1-3 isn't meant to be a scientific treatise on how the earth was formed. Are we to believe that God spoke to the writer of Genesis on the concepts of quantum physics and so forth? The writers of Scripture are more worried about theology, using history as a back-drop for explaining God's love, His reason for creating us, and so forth. It doesn't change anything of our fundamental belief. As a Catholic, I can believe either scenario, as long as I understand God was behind it because He loves us...
I'm just not wild about the idea of being left out of the ministry. :) Our side feels like we participate in the Great Commission too.
I hope that I have not given you that impression! You are certainly not left out of the Great Commission. WE, as Christians, are called to be the light of the World, to evangelize to all, either by our words or actions. I have labored to explain that you are part of the Church in some manner if you follow our teachings and if Christ abides in you, proof of which is your faith working through love. We as Catholics believe we represent the fullness of Christ's VISIBLE Church. When people want to know "what did God teach us?", they are to learn that fully through the Catholic Church. But this does not exclude Protestants, our separated brothers, from the Church. Every several hundred posts, it seems I am repeating this. But please understand, we don't look at Protestants as outside of the Church or going to hell. We call you "separated brothers", outside of the visible communion of the Church, but still a part of it. You also have a responsibility to do what is within your own knowledge and what has been revealed to you, even if it is imperfect.
I think when I said this I was thinking of all the disagreements among the Fathers on various issues as have been noted on this thread. Is the answer that at the time, these issues had not been resolved infallibly?
Yes. Before a teaching is officially "defined" and declared infallible, there will be some give and take between theologians as they wrestle with what the Church has taught in the past and its current belief. Thus, a Father can disagree with what will, in time, become an infallible teaching.
What puzzled me is that I thought mortal sins were much more common than what the name sounds like, and you seemed to hint that they are relatively rare?
They are not common, especially among those who take their walk seriously. To be a mortal sin, it must be a serious offense, one must KNOW it is serious and can separate us from God, and one must DO IT ANYWAYS. How often do you think that happens among serious Christians?
Brother in Christ