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To: jo kus
FK: You know I love my Bible. What are these teachings in Romans 7 that I don't like?

The fact that even the great St. Paul still had to fight against the temptations of the flesh - despite his regenerated status. In other words, God did not take control of St. Paul's will to desire the things of the spirit entirely. He had to battle, in fear and trembling. The path to Christ is a narrow one, FK.

Well, I don't have any problem with the idea that we struggle. I know I do. Of course we are all engaged in spiritual warfare against the evil one while we are on earth. My side doesn't think that God takes control of our will to be sinless after salvation. We couldn't defend that in a million years.

I agree that the path is indeed narrow. So, I like Paul's teachings in Romans 7 just fine. :) I don't agree with you that a true salvation can end in failure, but I don't see Paul arguing that it can either. Paul is describing sanctification and how it works.

2,773 posted on 02/17/2006 7:25:43 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus; HarleyD
My side doesn't think that God takes control of our will to be sinless after salvation

That's a new one, FK! I thought the theology of double predestination, that your friend Harley D preaches, and with whom you fully agree so far, states that God is always in control of everything and that we are just the way He made us.

Unless you presuppose free will, you will run into contradiction such as the one you made above. God is either in control or is not; He either allows free will an does not interfere with it (i.e. our will is really free), or He controls everything to the tiniest details.

The answer, of course, is that He allows free will because otherwise we are but simple puppets on a string, and the whole concept of sin, redemption and prayer becomes meaningless..

2,775 posted on 02/17/2006 8:27:53 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper
I don't agree with you that a true salvation can end in failure, but I don't see Paul arguing that it can either. Paul is describing sanctification and how it works.

From God's point of view, the Elect cannot fail! But I believe your point of view presumes too much. You have admitted repeatedly that your "Sinner's Prayer" potentially could have no effect on whether one is saved or not - thus, IT does not tell you that you are saved (since people have been known to fall away). Last night, I heard a Protestant give a witness that he was "saved" on 9 separate occasions before he was 18. Really, this is no way of determining one's eternal destiny...

Regards

2,797 posted on 02/19/2006 9:10:52 AM PST by jo kus
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