Kosta replied: Here is where the fine line between the East and the West might be perceived. God never leaves us...God never leaves us; we always leave God...In the East, sin is, by definition, separation from God and His grace The effect is the same. When one mortally sins, God is no longer within us. We turn away from God, and His sanctifying grace is no longer present. Without this, we cannot enter heaven. So while it is true, God doesn't leave us first, we leave Him, His absence within us is what I am speaking of - in that sense, God has "left us". We have "kicked Him out". He no longer abides in us - because of our decision. Thus, He HAS left us - because we don't want Him there.
In the West, sin is underastood as breaking a rule for which God is somehow "compelled" to punish us, which is nonsense
You'll be happy to know that since Vatican 2, the Catholic Church has been moving away from that. Unfortunately, we in the West were subject to the Jansenism error - its effects still often prevade in the legalistic attitudes of some of our older priests and nuns. This legalistic heresy, I believe, is finally, slowly, after generations, is dying off.
With all of that said, I think we can agree that this is just another way of looking at God which is found within the writings of Scripture and the Church Tradition. They both speak of disobedience bringing vengeance from God - thus, it is a viable teaching - although I personally prefer the path to God through the virtues and love.
Brother in Christ
Yes it is, Jo. I was merely pointing to a different way of looking at sin in our traditions, but the Western Chruch understand sin the same way as we do. I would say the Latin expression of feeling abandoned by God is a profoundly human experience (our tendency is to blame someone else, always). The Orthodox take is Patristic and therefore not something an individual will automatically understand.
I am always amazed when I read that Jesus experienced being abandoned by the Father before He expired. It shows that He was fully Human as well.
You'll be happy to know that since Vatican 2, the Catholic Church has been moving away from that
The Vatican has steadily been moving back to Patristic ways and nothing makes me happier, believe me.
And, I think this is where I would have an honest disagreement with Catholics, and I'm not sure about you yet Kosta. :) I would say God never leaves His elect, EVER! This is true even when the elect choose to disobey temporarily (if the choice is permanent, then God was never present in the first place so He couldn't have "left"). Because I believe He never leaves, I can't accept that salvation is won or lost based on the instant of confession and the first mortal sin thereafter.