Your interpretation and my interpretation of "cooperating" are different. You feel that a person is free to cooperate or not cooperate in their salvation. I feel that God changes the heart so we will cooperate with God during salvation. After we are saved there are periods of time when we will rebel simply because of our fleshy nature. But God understands and will bring us back to a point of cooperating with Him.
You are claiming the title of "Elect" based on what knowledge within you? Please forgive me if I sound skeptical, but anyone can convince themselves of this.
I am claiming the title of "elect" based upon what God has said in His word. I have always put great store in the word of God and I noticed that the Catholic Church has as well believing it to be written by the "finger of God" if you will. Therefore if God states that He will put His spirit in us and cause us to walk in His statues, I believe it. If He states, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.", I believe it. If He says we are chosen of God and that man's steps are ordained by Him, I believe it. The Bible is the ONLY thing that can be believed.
If a Protestant admits that "someone was never saved to begin with", what way will you assure yourself TODAY that YOU are saved? You CANNOT
Nonsense, there are plenty of Christians in scripture who KNEW they were Christians. In fact THEY CALLED THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS. You can ONLY know your own heart and Paul states to "Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith".
People fall away all the time these days. They go to some sort of rally, get a big Christian high, and then end up going back to the lives they were leading. How many came to World Day (or whatever it was called) and slipped back? To you it looks like they "lost" their salvation. I would say they never had it to begin with.
I can only examine myself and I cannot judge the salvation of others. However, I can be assured of my salvation simply by resting on God's word. If God took the time and bother to saved me when I was a most wretched creature, He surely won't let me go now after He has spent 30+ years on me. I don't rest on things that I'm doing. My faith is placed upon Christ to see me through. Personally, I don't think He'll let me down.
In the end, the Protestant's self-assured salvation is not absolutely secure.
In the end you say God saves a person today not knowing if He will be saved tomorrow. Wouldn't it be just as well to jump in front of a bus after you've been baptized?
God changes your heart so we will cooperate - true. But the simple fact that we have those brief periods of following our fleshy selves (or longer periods...) should be enough evidence to convince you that you DO have free will to NOT choose God. If God steered you on every action, you wouldn't sin. You sinning AFTER your regeneration proves that you are not completely transformed (or completely "saved"). I think the point, though, is that man does cooperate - but you seem to believe we differ greatly here. We both agree that God begins to change our hearts, ever-so-slowly, it seems, into a "natural" heart (I take Ez to mean the one God gave Adam before the first sin).
I am claiming the title of "elect" based upon what God has said in His word. I have always put great store in the word of God and I noticed that the Catholic Church has as well believing it to be written by the "finger of God" if you will.
My argument is with those who believe they are ABSOLUTELY saved. I believe we know too many people who have made that claim - and then fall away. Yes, the Word of God says that we can be assured we will be saved, but I think that this presumes we will continue along our path - thus, over and over, we see the theme of judgment based on our actions in the New Testament. It's not quite done yet!
The Bible is the ONLY thing that can be believed
LOL! No, I think I'll just disagree and leave it at that! We are closing in on 3000 posts...
there are plenty of Christians in scripture who KNEW they were Christians. In fact THEY CALLED THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS. You can ONLY know your own heart and Paul states to "Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith".
Sure there are those who CALL themselves Christians. But it is more than a name, correct? How about this definition of a Christian:
"A person who loves pleasure, seeks comfort, flies from any suffering, is overanxious, complains, blames and is impatient at the least thing not in his favor is a Christian in NAME ONLY. If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23)" From St. John Vianney.
Quite a definition. But I think if you read even some Protesant Christian's works of such great men as Dietrich Bonhoffer's (Discipleship), you will learn they agree. We REALLY find Christ in our self-denials... To those who make the claim to be "Christian", I remind them to look to Matthew 7:21 - "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens." I also will point to the parable of the cockle and the wheat, a parable about the visible Church, the community of God. Some will end up being cockles in the end - and no one else will recognize them! Cockles and wheat look identical, it is only the harvester who will recognize them. Thus, the servants don't pull them up now. The same of us in the Church. No one can really be sure whether they are cockle or wheat... Although I will agree we have an idea of ourselves.
It is too easy to convince oneself that he is a Christian. Actions speak louder than words. Faith is seen. To follow Christ, we must "become" another Christ.
People fall away all the time these days. They go to some sort of rally, get a big Christian high, and then end up going back to the lives they were leading. How many came to World Day (or whatever it was called) and slipped back? To you it looks like they "lost" their salvation. I would say they never had it to begin with.
I understand where you are coming from. I think we use the term "saved" differently. We tend to refer to salvation as what happens in the future. We consider the point of our regeneration (Baptism) as initial justification. We are righteous in God's eyes. This righteousness status will change - which is what you are talking about, I believe. Thus, a person, to us, isn't losing their salvation, but moves in and out of righteousness in God's eyes.
He surely won't let me go now after He has spent 30+ years on me.
How many people made it out of Egypt, Harley? How many were "saved" from the Pharaoh? Many thousands, according to Scripture. And how many made it to the promised Land? Two of the original? Paul makes this perfectly clear that this is an example for us today (in 1 Cor 10:1-12). Many are "saved" by Baptism - but this doesn't mean "saved" for eternal heaven. The Jews were an example, a model for us not to get overconfident, just as Paul discusses in Romans when he warns us that we can be cut off the tree, just like the Jews were. We can only hope that WE don't let HIM down! (note, you understand that I am not saying "by myself"?!) He has done everything short of drag us into heaven. It is our attachments to the flesh that keep us from Him.
In the end you say God saves a person today not knowing if He will be saved tomorrow. Wouldn't it be just as well to jump in front of a bus after you've been baptized?
LOL! No. I don't say that we don't "know", just that we should not be overconfident on what will happen five years from now in our lives. We SHOULD be secure that the Lord will continue to bless us. It is now to us to utilize His graces and continue to grow and become sanctified. We trust in God's mercy.
Regards