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To: jo kus
If you have sinned, you have practiced it, have you not? You are putting words into John's writings that are not there.

I'm not putting words into John's mouth. That is what he states. If you have a better Catholic interpretation I would be open to listening to it. Especially this one

I know the answer to this. It's a mystery.

According to Reformed theology, isn't that the anthropology of man? That he can never choose good? There is no such contest within the non-Christian ...

Man can never choose good things that are pleasing to God. Christ said,

Non-Christians can still do nice things. They just can't do the things that are of God.

All that being said I would like to know how people who don't believe in original sin would interpret Paul's statement?


2,558 posted on 02/12/2006 4:27:22 PM PST by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper
I've come to realize that if we diminish original sin we are actually diminishing Christ's work on the cross.

We are born in sin and we die sinning. That's our fallen nature and we can never be anything but imperfect humans while on this earth.

But Christ has acquitted us of our sins so that we can stand blameless before God. That doesn't mean we don't sin. It means we are saved in spite of our sins.

Christ paid the price for our sins in total, and thus we are covered by His redemption. His innocence becomes our own.

If we assume any responsibility for our own salvation by our good works or righteousness we usurp His sacrifice.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." -- 1 Corinthians 15:10

2,566 posted on 02/12/2006 5:48:13 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: HarleyD
Regarding 1Jo 5:18, I would say John is talking about willfully sinning in a grievious manner, not the smaller sins of our daily lives. I admit that John is not very clear on this issue in this epistle - first, he admits we all sin, then he says that those who sin are of the devil. A minor sin, one that John would not consider "deadly", would not turn the man to evil, so perhaps this is what John is discussing.

Man can never choose good things that are pleasing to God

...without God. Yes.

Non-Christians can still do nice things. They just can't do the things that are of God.

...without God. Yes.

Regards

2,580 posted on 02/13/2006 4:12:21 AM PST by jo kus
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To: HarleyD; jo kus; Kolokotronis
1 Jo 5:18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Jo said: "Regarding 1Jo 5:18, I would say John is talking about willfully sinning in a grievious manner, not the smaller sins of our daily lives. I admit that John is not very clear on this issue in this epistle - first, he admits we all sin, then he says that those who sin are of the devil. A minor sin, one that John would not consider "deadly", would not turn the man to evil, so perhaps this is what John is discussing.

This is a confusing verse. It looks like Jo's thinking is along the lines of Matthew Henry. Here is what he said: (Kolo, I pinged you re: our "demon discussion")

"Here we have,

I. A recapitulation of the privileges and advantages of sound Christian believers. 1. They are secured against sin, against the fulness of its dominion or the fulness of its guilt: We know that whosoever is born of God (and the believer in Christ is born of God, v. 1) sinneth not (v. 18), sinneth not with that fulness of heart and spirit that the unregenerate do (as was said ch. iii. 6, 9), and consequently not with that fulness of guilt that attends the sins of others; and so he is secured against that sin which is unavoidably unto death, or which infallibly binds the sinner over unto the wages of eternal death; the new nature, and the inhabitation of the divine Spirit thereby, prevent the admission of such unpardonable sin.

2. They are fortified against the devil's destructive attempts: He that is begotten of God keepeth himself, that is, is enabled to guard himself, and the wicked one toucheth him not (v. 18), that is, that the wicked one may not touch him, namely, to death. It seems not to be barely a narration of the duty or the practice of the regenerate; but an indication of their power by virtue of their regeneration.

They are thereby prepared and principled against the fatal touches, the sting, of the wicked one; he touches not their souls, to infuse his venom there as he does in others, or to expel that regenerative principle which is an antidote to his poison, or to induce them to that sin which by the gospel constitution conveys an indissoluble obligation to eternal death. He may prevail too far with them, to draw them to some acts of sin; but it seems to be the design of the apostle to assert that their regeneration secures them from such assaults of the devil as will bring them into the same case and actual condemnation with the devil.

2,677 posted on 02/15/2006 2:23:26 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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