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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus; Cronos
All are God's chosen one way or another.

That is what the scriptures states.

Which begs the question: why pray, why repent; why redeem; why save?

It is precisely because salvation is from the Lord that we can pray for the salvation of others. If man has God given free will then there is no point in praying. God will not intervene in a person's free choice. Consequently, you can't pray for Sam's salvation simply because Sam is exercising his divine right.

When one stops and think about prayer, it is a great mystery for God's knows all our needs, takes care and watches over us, etc and then ask us to pray for things. The only thing I can tell you about prayer is that it helps us to know God's will. If you pray for something and regardless if your prayer is answered or not, you know what is God's will. God answers our prayers (or not answers them) to show us His will.

Your repentance is spiritually void because you say that whatever you do is simply because it's God's will.

Our repentance is not void. We repent because God brings us to a point of repentance.

Our redemption is unnecessary because we never sinned; we simply obeyed God.

I believe I'm on record to say man does sin, even after becoming a Christian. Christians just don't practice sin.

If everything is of God's will, lest we "thwart God," then nothing is our will.

We don't "thwart" God. God "thwarts" us.

2,521 posted on 02/12/2006 3:43:41 AM PST by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus; Cronos
It is precisely because salvation is from the Lord that we can pray for the salvation of others

Why? God won't change His mind according to your theology. Their fate has already been sealed.

God will not intervene in a person's free choice

Oh? And you know that how?

Our repentance is not void. We repent because God brings us to a point of repentance

What are you repenting for? Everything you did -- whether good or evil you did because it was God's will which you cannot resist in your theology (BTW, Scriptures clearly state that men can reject God).

So, you are repenting for something you have not done of your own volition. That makes sense!

I believe I'm on record to say man does sin, even after becoming a Christian. Christians just don't practice sin

That's not what I said. I said we haven't sinned, according to your theology, because all we did was obey God. How can obedience to God be a sin?!

So, if we have not sinned, but simply obeyed God's will, as your theology claims, than why do we need to be redeemed?

Your answer makes no sense whatsoever, I hope you realize that. What is the difference between sinning and practicing sin? What is sin in your theology anyway? Obviously we use the same word but not the same concept.

So, to recap Reformed theology to which you and FK subscribe and describe so far: everything is God's will; we have no choice but to obey; we do good or evil as God wants us to; even satan, by necessity, is God's faithful servant; God saves some, destroys others not because they did something on their own but just because; we do nothing outside of God's will, yet we sin (?), and repent (again by God's will) for something we have not done on our own; and God needs to redeem us for our sin (?) which we committed by His will; God is the author of evil.

Have I missed something? Oh, yes, we pray for the salvation of others but really to know God's will, and because He wants us to pray to Him although He will never change His mind or what He has pre-ordained.

2,522 posted on 02/12/2006 4:24:56 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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