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To: kosta50; Cronos; Kolokotronis; annalex; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; Bohemund
You have obviously never read Orthodox fathers of his calibre....History certifies with all of the Church Fathers and theologians of great authority, together with the entirety of Holy Tradition and its incontestable substantiating elements, that the teaching on divine foreknowledge has always existed within the Church.

As a matter of fact I have read SOME (not all) and SOME works (not all). It makes no difference. His statement:

shows that he bought into the Pelagius lie. Simple logic would state that SOMEONE ELSE must have been saying otherwise for him to make such a statement now hadn't they? There must have been Calvinists church fathers back then although I'm sure they didn't call themselves Calvinists. SOMEONE must have been saying the chosen were limited. So please don't tell me all the Church fathers were in harmony.

I will also add that Elder Cleopa comments are much like the comments I hear here all the time. Predestination is a mystery. God looks down the corridors of time to see how man chooses. The scriptures don't say man choose God. Our Lord Jesus was very clear.

While Elder Cleopa might have been a very nice gentleman and a wonderful Christian, with all due respect he was wrong. I'm sure he couldn't satisfactorily explain John 15:16.
2,418 posted on 02/08/2006 5:55:11 PM PST by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
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To: HarleyD; Kolokotronis; annalex; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; Bohemund
There must have been Calvinists church fathers back then although I'm sure they didn't call themselves Calvinists

Oh yes, there were plenty of Calvinsits "back then", and they even called themselves Calvinsits or perhaps Presbyterians, given that Elder Cleopa served God in the communist-enslaved Romania in the second half of the 20th century! Last time I checked, Calvinists were not extinct in Europe at that time.

And you say that you have read some of his works but never bothered to find out a little about the author, such as where and when he lived?

Well, this is what he has to say to your quotes:


2,425 posted on 02/08/2006 6:20:56 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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