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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Cronos; Kolokotronis; Gamecock
The Protestant would scream "Praise the Lord! We are saved! " The Orthodox would say "Glory to God in the highest! Let's try to swim as hard as we can to get as close as possible to the ship so that we can be spotted, and then saved." In other words, you are not saved until you are plucked out of that ocean.

Hmmm....In the shipwreck analogy it seems to me the Protestant has placed their faith and trust that the ship has spotted them and will indeed rescue them. The Orthodox does not indicate this faith hoping that if they do something (e.g. swim out closer) they will be spotted and rescued. I think that is a fair analogy.

2,372 posted on 02/08/2006 4:22:23 AM PST by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Gamecock; annalex; Cronos
The Orthodox does not indicate this faith [as the Protestant] hoping that if they do something (e.g. swim out closer) they will be spotted and rescued

So, in addition to be idolatrous, apostate and followers of traditions of men, we are now being accused of not having enough faith.

Here is what Elder Cleopa, a Romanian monk well known and very much respected in the Orthodox world, had to say on this issue of salvation:

"The truth is that Christ has brought salvation to everyone, something theologians have labelled general (or objective) salvation. And yet, everyone does not actualize this objective salvation, only those who seek and pursue it. While objective salvation is granted to every human being, subjective or personal salvation depends on the intent of man. Those who desire to be saved and work toward that goal receive divine Grace as their aide and guide. This Grace does not work in us violently; rather it abides with us perennially as a specific offering for the work of our salvation.

Subsequently, it is not possible for us to speak of an unconditional predestination and its inadequate presuppositions for salvation."

That is the Orthodox teaching. I am somewhat disappointed that other members of the Apostolic Faith on this forum are beginning to agree with you. That's why the Orthodox wisdom says "Watch out."

2,382 posted on 02/08/2006 2:26:22 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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