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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
I see the truth of salvation as a single moment in time, from our point of view, with future included events (works). I believe sanctification only begins after salvation is accomplished

Imagine a Protestant and an Orthodox shipwrecked in the middle of the ocean with nothing around them but water as far as they can see, helplessly floating on choppy waters. I think it is reasonable that the moment of truth should come to both right there and then -- that they are lost and will perish, unless nothing short of a miracle rescues them.

Then, suddenly, against all hope or probability, you see a ship on the horizon. The Protestant would scream "Praise the Lord! We are saved! " The Orhodox would say "Glory to God in the highest! Let's try to swim as hard as we can to get as close as possible to the ship so that we can be spotted, and then saved." In other words, you are not saved until you are plucked out of that ocean.

The sight of the ship is not being saved, but a reasonable hope that you might be saved. And, while nothing you did brought the ship your way, you can do a lot to make your salvation a greater certainty by deliberately moving closer to the ship and cooperating with its crew.

Having been a parachute jumper at one time in my life, I always remember people saying "why would anyone jump out of a perfeclty safe airplane?" To which I would say (in my Orthodox mindset) "It's not a perfectly safe airplane until it lands safely."

2,296 posted on 02/05/2006 5:30:54 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
Imagine a Protestant and an Orthodox shipwrecked in the middle of the ocean with nothing around them but water as far as they can see, helplessly floating on choppy waters. ... Then, suddenly, against all hope or probability, you see a ship on the horizon. The Protestant would scream "Praise the Lord! We are saved! " The Orhodox would say "Glory to God in the highest! Let's try to swim as hard as we can to get as close as possible to the ship so that we can be spotted, and then saved." In other words, you are not saved until you are plucked out of that ocean.

The sight of the ship is not being saved, but a reasonable hope that you might be saved. And, while nothing you did brought the ship your way, you can do a lot to make your salvation a greater certainty by deliberately moving closer to the ship and cooperating with its crew.

Using the parameters of your story, the Protestant would not say "We are saved!", he would say "Hey, that ship sure looks a lot better than what I've got now, let's move toward it and make sure it's not full of terrorists." IOW, the Protestant seeing potential salvation far away is a seeker being led by God. If God graced him with the ability to swim he might be saved. Not everyone can swim. Once he is plucked out of the water onto a safe ship, he is saved. Then he leads the rest of his life in service to Christ and being sanctified. God will protect him and never allow him to ever be lost at sea again permanently.

BTW, if it had been me who saw the ship, and as an economics major, I would have simply assumed a cigar boat and sped toward the larger ship. Don't worry, I would have picked you up along the way. :)

2,360 posted on 02/08/2006 2:12:27 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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