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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
Jesus could have sinned???

Let's look at what His dual nature means. Jesus is a Man, not God "dressed" to look like a Man, but flesh and blood as we are. Jesus suffered and died on the Cross. The Word did not die or suffer. Jesus felt pain, hunger, thirst, fear. Are you denying that? Did He not ask His Father if the ordeal He was about to go through could not somehow "pass" Him (cf Mat 26:39)?

In order to stress His dual nature, the Orthodox always say Jesus Christ (Jesus the Savior) and refer to Jesus alone only when it is His humanity that is the subject.

Was He not tempted in the desert? Do you think Satan could not see that He was also a Man and believed, wrongly, that no Man can resist his deceit?

Yes, Jesus was subject to passions -- and that does not mean, as you say, that he lusted after someone's wife! Passions are simple desires that come from the flesh -- whether it be thirst or lust, pleasure or pain, or fear. Passions are our corruption and giving in to passions is sin -- as Kolo says -- missing the mark.

Interestingly, I heard one lady who is a self-described "nondominational" Christian say that she didn't believe in sin. When I asked her what is sin to her she said "You know, cheat, steal and lie." Need I say more?

2,271 posted on 02/03/2006 4:39:03 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
Let's look at what His dual nature means. Jesus is a Man, not God "dressed" to look like a Man, but flesh and blood as we are. Jesus suffered and died on the Cross. The Word did not die or suffer. Jesus felt pain, hunger, thirst, fear. Are you denying that? Did He not ask His Father if the ordeal He was about to go through could not somehow "pass" Him (cf Mat 26:39)?

I suppose I would characterize it as Jesus being fully both 100% God and 100% man. I admit I can't explain the mechanics. :) Since Jesus never sinned, I would say that His divinity trumped His humanity on many things. Whether or not Jesus experienced fear is a good question. I would have to say 'No'. He certainly didn't seem to exhibit any while in the direct presence of satan. That would have caused me perhaps a little fear. :) Also, the concept of fear involves doubt and uncertainty. I don't believe that Jesus had these characteristics.

I believe the verse you cite is talking about the apprehension of Jesus not wanting to be separated from the Father. Who would want that? But of course Jesus readily accepts what He must endure. I don't believe He did it in fear, but maybe with sadness. I believe this verse is partly meant as a lesson for us about devotion.

In order to stress His dual nature, the Orthodox always say Jesus Christ (Jesus the Savior) and refer to Jesus alone only when it is His humanity that is the subject.

Oh, I didn't realize that, that sounds reasonable, thank you.

Yes, Jesus was subject to passions -- and that does not mean, as you say, that he lusted after someone's wife! Passions are simple desires that come from the flesh -- whether it be thirst or lust, pleasure or pain, or fear. Passions are our corruption and giving in to passions is sin -- as Kolo says -- missing the mark.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure of the point you are making here. Jesus was subject to temptation, but not to sin. I don't see "passion" as necessarily a bad thing at all, although it certainly can be. One passion is anger, which Jesus clearly showed on more than one occasion. However, since it was a righteous anger, it was not sin. Jesus was also passionate about His love for the Father and about His love for us. Why do you say there must be corruption?

2,325 posted on 02/06/2006 2:07:41 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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