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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
"How can Omnipotent God be humble? How could He possibly respect our decisions? Well, then, this tells me that western Christianity does not know what love is.

From the sound of your framing, perhaps not by your standards. Do you believe that when Jesus went through His torture and death that it had anything to do with His respect for us? Kosta, love and respect are completely different concepts, why do you equate them?"

I think Kosta may have been being a bit ironic in his comment. Orthodoxy stresses the humility of Christ. Witness the following icon "Extreme Humility". The process of theosis necessarily requires a development of a profound degree of humility in order to be "like Christ".


Interestingly, this image of humility isn't applied only to The Logos, Christ, but also to the Holy Spirit. I may have posted this before on this thread, but this comment from the holy Athonite Archimandrite Sophrony demonstrates this forcfully:

"The Holy Spirit comes when we are receptive. He does not compel. He approaches so meekly that we may not even notice. If we would know the Holy Spirit we need to examine ourselves in the light of the Gospel teaching, to detect any other presence which may prevent the Holy Spirit from entering into our souls. We must not wait for God to force Himself on us without our consent. God respects and does not constrain man. It is amazing how God humbles Himself before us. He loves us with a tender love, not haughtily, not with condescension. And when we open our hearts to Him we are overwhelmed by the conviction that He is indeed our Father. The soul then worships in love."

Imagine, FK, the Pantokrator, the Ruler of All Creation approaches us, miserable, self centered us, with meekness, with love, with respect and with humility!

2,270 posted on 02/03/2006 2:13:02 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

Very good post, sir. Why is it so difficult to see the humility of God? Isn't Jesus the par excellent sacrament - He Who tells us that intense desire that God has for mankind - to even die on a cross for us? If Jesus is God, then it is difficult to miss God's humility...

Very good post, brother.

Joe


2,277 posted on 02/03/2006 8:06:29 PM PST by jo kus
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To: Kolokotronis; jo kus; kosta50
[From Athonite Archimandrite Sophrony:] "... We must not wait for God to force Himself on us without our consent. God respects and does not constrain man. It is amazing how God humbles Himself before us. He loves us with a tender love, not haughtily, not with condescension."

I would certainly agree that Jesus defines ultimate humility. Praise and glory be to God. Where I think we disagree is over whether He showed humility out of respect for us OR out of love for us. I would say these are completely different reasons. If you made a list of people you respect, what would they all have in common? They would all MERIT your respect, wouldn't they? Many of them would even have something or some quality that you do not have. I don't see how man can merit God's respect. Love, of course, requires no merit.

2,320 posted on 02/06/2006 12:24:29 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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