You're saying that hypothetically, right? 'Cause Dr. E's flies are never gonna make it that far.
Posted on 01/01/2006 4:48:03 PM PST by HarleyD
You're saying that hypothetically, right? 'Cause Dr. E's flies are never gonna make it that far.
That's pathetic. Show me who propsed that any life other than man's is resurrected? Who suggested that animals get resurrected?
Not at all.
What nonsense. God told Noah and his descendants to go eat animals just like the plants:
I hope we are not going to have a food fight
Oh yes, cole slaw has a soul. And did you know that some theologians consider Brassica oleracea var. gemmifera (brussel sprouts) to be concrete evidence of nature's fallen state?
Speaking from experience, I can honestly say that those things are the Devil's peas
I agree. I don't want to clutter Harley's terrific thread here with "animals have souls, but some animals have more soul than other animals..."
We should clutter Gamecock's thread with it. 8~)
Yes, this is a wonderful thread. Let's call a truce and go back to the bible vs the tribal.
I.E., Don't judge a book by it's cover. True, but irrelevant to this argument.
1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Speaks to the mind of The Church, not the individual. Keep in mind the context of the entire letter: Paul is writing to them about their divisiveness. Had this comment applied to individuals, each man would likely have imagined his own opinion to be divinely inspired and anarchy would have ensued.
So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." [John 8:7]
I find it interesting that He said, "without sin" instead of "without the sin of adultery".
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Pharisaitical Jews believed in resurrection -- the World to Come referred to earth, not heaven. Until resurrection, which is indeterminate, and post-messiah, those who die are "asleep" in their graves, and their souls are in Shoel/Hades. No hell. No heaven. You are reading into this because you don't know what Judaism teaches. There is no reference to any heaven or hell in your verses.
I agree. Besides, I don't really know much about "soul" food.
No, not true, for David affirms that He is God of the living when he says that God will not leave his soul in the grave, or in Hell, for if He did, then the living, David after death, could not worship Him.
Double nonsense. God told Adam OTHERWISE!
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.[Gen 1:30]
Seems to me the Scripture says that God INTENDED man and animals to eat herbs for meat.
Noah is post-Fall. You need to reset your clock. Also re-read what I posted: I said pre-Fall.
As someone already suggested on this thread: try reading (and understanding) Scripture rather than prooftexting it.
Indeed it is. In fact, the very use of the English word "justice" or the Greek word dikaiosunh is misleading. Here's what an eminent Greek theologian, Alexander Kalomiros says about this:
"Does this conception of justice have anything to do with the justice that God revealed to us? Does the phrase justice of God have this meaning in the Old and New Testaments?
Perhaps the beginning of the mistaken interpretation of the word justice in the Holy Scriptures was its translation by the Greek word dikaiosunh. Not that it is a mistaken translation, but because this word, being a word of the pagan, humanistic, Greek civilization, was charged with human notions which could easily lead to misunderstandings.
First of all, the word dikaiosunh brings to mind an equal distribution. This is why it is represented by a balance. The good are rewarded and the bad are punished by human society in a fair way. This is human justice, the one which takes place in court.
Is this the meaning of God's justice, however?
The word dikaiosunh, justice, is a translation of the Hebraic word tsedaká. This word means the divine energy which accomplishes man's salvation. It is parallel and almost synonymous to the other Hebraic word, heséd which means mercy, compassion, love, and to the word, eméth which means fidelity, truth. This, as you see, gives a completely other dimension to what we usually conceive as justice. This is how the Church understood God's justice. This is what the Fathers of the Church taught of it. How can you call God just, writes Saint Isaac the Syrian, when you read the passage on the wage given to the workers? 'Friend, I do thee no wrong; I will give unto this last even as unto thee who worked for me from the first hour. Is thine eye evil, because I am good?' How can a man call God just, continues Saint Isaac, when he comes across the passage on the prodigal son, who wasted his wealth in riotous living, and yet only for the contrition which he showed, the father ran and fell upon his neck, and gave him authority over all his wealth? None other but His very Son said these things concerning Him lest we doubt it, and thus He bare witness concerning Him. Where, then, is God's justice, for whilst we were sinners, Christ died for us!
So we see that God is not just, with the human meaning of this word, but we see that His justice means His goodness and love, which are given in an unjust manner, that is, God always gives without taking anything in return, and He gives to persons like us who are not worthy of receiving. That is why Saint Isaac teaches us Do not call God just, for His justice is not manifest in the things concerning you. And if David calls Him just and upright, His Son revealed to us that He is good and kind. 'He is good', He says, 'to the evil and impious.'"
Only the Sadduccees denied resurrection. Again, there is no Hell. The Judaic idea of Shoel is one closer to "waiting room" for all souls not just the wicked ones than to a final resting place. Judaism overwhelmingly believed in resurrection of the dead -- but not in heaven but on earth. In the OT it is expressly mentioned in Daniel, itself a controversial book of uncertain origin or date.
The Jews believed that the soul is immortal, and still do. So, there was no death for the soul. That's why they considered God the God of Life. This is a completely different concept than the Christian idea of salvation. The Jews have no concedpt of man being born 'depraved" or spiritually dead. Thus, being "saved" is taken literally (i.e. from the Pharaoh) and not spiritually.
The problem is that in Judaism the common phraseology encountered in Christianity has different, sometimes unrelated meaning. The similarity is only superficial.
That may all well be true on one level. Spiritual giants like David, though, understood differently.
_______________________________________ From what passages?
Passages found within the Pastorals, the Acts of the Apostles, and the Fathers of the Church writing in the first two centuries. Any evidence that you can give me that the Catholic Church is NOT the continuation of the Church established on Pentacost Sunday in Acts 2?
Regards
You replied : You salvation now depends on just how sanctified you can make yourself?
Can you point out how you twisted my words to prompt your response? What on earth are you talking about?
So did Christ...Your logic astounds me. What are you trying to say?
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