[Uri’el-2012]

The "until" is what throws people. Modern English-speakers assume that it means that she DID have relations after she brought forth her first born. The problem arises because of the King James translation -- in the 17th century, "until" did not imply that the eventuality ever happened, it just was a point in time.

What makes this clearer for modern English speakers is a surviving usage: "She never used tobacco in any form until her dying day." That does NOT mean she started smoking or dipping after her death!

58 posted on 12/27/2005 7:16:56 AM MST by AnAmericanMother

What is clear is that you want to believe something
that is not in the Holy Word of G-d.

You want to believe man-made doctrine.

The use of "She never used tobacco in any form until her dying day."
Until is used as a conjunction and something changing at a point in time.

The plain text suggests that after her death she no longer operated as a living being.

b'shem Y'shua

[Campion]

What is clear is that you want to believe something that is not in the Holy Word of G-d.

Chuck, nothing, not a word of Scripture identifies anyone except Jesus as a "son (or daughter) of Mary", or for that matter, as a "son/daughter of Joseph".

You're the person who's insisting on believing in something not in Scripture.

[AnAmericanMother]

Or she might have used it on her deathbed.

I think that is the construction that is being (mis)used in the case of the BVM. It was unknown in the 17th c.

I'm not and have never been a Sola Scriptura person. How can one be? The Bible doesn't define itself. The "Scriptures" referred to in 2nd Timothy weren't the Bible as it exists today, in fact given the time and place they were almost certainly the Septuagint . . . . which contains books not in the modern Protestant Bible.