Excommunicated priest holds ‘illicit’ Mass

MSNBC ^ | 12-26-05 | AP

[jecIIny]

This group got some publicity so you have all the liberal wingnuts coming out. But this is temporary. A month from now these people are not going to have people coming from Oregon to their schismatic church. Even so, this is further evidence of the state of the Catholic Church today.

[GeronL]

He needs to find something to call himself, because he isn't a Roman Catholic

[dsc]

Looks to me like Burke made a grab for their millions of dollars, possibly to pay the victims of homo molestations that he or some other bishop could have prevented, and when they told him to pound sand, he pulled their priests and threw them out of the church.

You can put all the lipstick you want on that, but it still looks like a pig to me.

[stocksthatgoup]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[sirchtruth]

I really wish good Catholics would wake up and realize on their current course they're just inviting trouble into their midst.

This tradition of Pope's, the imperiacal structure of the church, the liberal bent toward God's word is not what God intended things to be like. Of course most Catholics I know would have no idea about these things because they rely on a relationship with their preists to tell them what God thinks instead of THEMSELVES going right to the source.

This is NOT a slam on the parishioner's of Catholism as unholy or Godless, but more a rebuke of the laziness and dishonest accessments one takes to search scripture for answers. When God says, "Seek and you shall find," he's just not referring to Himself, he's also saying to know the Truth, YOU have to seek the Truth. If you're relying on someone else to tell you what God thinks, you're being irresponsible to his charge....Every church needs to pay close attention to the first chapters of Revelation, because they are not only a warning to past churches, but churhes right now, today! WAKE UP!

The veil is rent!!!

[NYer]

this is further evidence of the state of the Catholic Church today.

In what way?

[Desdemona]

Looks to me like Burke made a grab for their millions of dollars, possibly to pay the victims of homo molestations that he or some other bishop could have prevented, and when they told him to pound sand, he pulled their priests and threw them out of the church.

Looks to me, after living here my whole life and knowing the WHOLE history of this little affair, that the Poles were in violation of Canon Law for over 100 years - through Kain, Glennon, Ritter, Carberry, May and Rigali (archbishops) - and Burke tried to correct it. These people are incredibly hard-headed. They also live in some of the wealthiest suburbs in the county. They are used to getting their way and Burke wouldn't let them. Secretly around here, most people are glad it's finally over. Everybody else can comply, why can't they?

The truth is that that part of town is being redeveloped and that would have made a great parish for the young people moving back into the city.

Sorry, most people here outside the St. L Post-Disgrace and other media, really don't care. They brought it on themselves.

[Desdemona]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

It's actually more over than not.

[sitetest]

Dear Desdemona,

"Looks to me, after living here my whole life and knowing the WHOLE history of this little affair, that the Poles were in violation of Canon Law for over 100 years - through Kain, Glennon, Ritter, Carberry, May and Rigali (archbishops) - and Burke tried to correct it."

It's actually worse than that. From what I understand the problems in its governing structure were significantly exacerbated in recent years by the actions of the board.

I wrote in another thread:

"The original bylaws and articles of incorporation provided for the archbishop to appoint the board, and for the bylaws to be changed only with his approval and within the laws of the Catholic Church. In that they changed the bylaws without his permission, he sought to force them to change them back. They appealed to Rome, claiming that their changes were acceptable within church law.

"The pope disagreed, and said that their current form of governance just isn't Catholic."

gbcdoj had a good link concerning the issue:

Progression of St. Stanislaus Parish Corporation

sitetest

[NYer]

AP - Sat Dec 24,10:51 PM ET The American flag flies between fire trucks in front of St. Stanislaus Kostka Roman Catholic Church in St. Louis Saturday, Dec. 24, 2005, before the start of Mass with the church's new paster, the Rev. Marek Bozek. Archbishop Raymond Burke has said it would be a mortal sin for anyone to participate in a Mass celebrated by Bozek who was excommunicated, the Catholic church's most severe penalty. Burke, who was helpless to stop the Mass, said it would be 'valid' but 'illicit.' (AP Photo/James A. Finley)

AP - Sun Dec 25, 2:02 AM ET The Rev. Marek Bozek follows the altar boys following his first Mass as the leader of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church in St. Louis on Saturday, Dec. 24, 2005. At least 1,500 people attended the Christmas Eve Mass, with the overflow crowd watching by closed circuit TV in an adjoining parish center. St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke last week excommunicated Bozek and the church's six-member lay board. (AP Photo/James A. Finley)

* * * * *

As the Rev. Marek Bozek moved into the nave of St. Stanislaus Kostka church, about 2,000 people, jammed into every crevice of the church and the church hall next door, stood up and cheered.

It wasn't until Christmas morning, in a different homily, that Bozek told his new parishioners about a prior episode in his life that helped prepare him for this latest challenge to authority. "God tries us with fire to make our faith stronger," he told them.

Five years ago, Bozek and Catholic church leaders in Poland were at odds about something more personal than the St. Stanislaus dispute. It was an accusation that forced him to flee his homeland, landing in Missouri, and, finally, in the pulpit at St. Stanislaus parish.

With a startling revelation, he signaled to his parishioners on Christmas morning that he had been through controversy with church authority before. And he believed it had made him stronger.

Bozek told his new parishioners the story of his struggle five years ago at a seminary in Poland with an accusation made against him - "a witch hunt" he called it. "Some people accused me of being a promiscuous homosexual," he said. He told the rector of the seminary to provide proof, and said the rector couldn't, but persisted in the accusations.

FULL STORY

[gbcdoj]

Actually, it was the Parish Board who made the grab for the "millions of dollars" in the event the parish closed. Under the original 19th century bylaws, the parish property was to go to the Archdiocese and the parish corporation was under the control of the Archdiocese and civilly subject to canon law and the rules of the Archdiocese. In recent decades the parish board changed that, illegally, so that they could hang on to the parish property in the event of a closure and so that they would have no regulation from the Archdiocese to prevent them from doing stuff like setting up a bar after Church for the parents to drink while their children are in CCD (the pastor opposed but he was _overruled_ by the board - doesn't sound very Catholic to me).

Burke offered to place the entire parish property in a civil trust and to promise to keep the Parish open so long as the Polish community supported it. If it was to close, the property would go to a civil corporation for the purpose of promoting the Polish heritage in the St. Louis area, under control of the parish board of directors. All this would be enforceable under civil law.

Instead, the Parish board has hired this liberal priest who preaches "open communion" and bizarre interpretations of scripture. It is about a fight for authority, and the Catholic principle is clear - the Bishop governs his diocese, not the laypeople. There would be no need for any of this if the Parish board had not made an illegal grab for power in the first place...

Documentation Regarding St. Stanislaus Parish
See the new and old bylaws here, as well as the proposed solution:

http://www.archstl.org/parishes/documents/st_stanislaus.html

[NYer]

This tradition of Pope's, the imperiacal structure of the church, the liberal bent toward God's word is not what God intended things to be like.

This is precisely the structure established by Christ for His Church.

Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - the apostles are given Christ's authority to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven. God raises up humanity in Christ by exalting his chosen leaders and endowing them with the authority and grace they need to bring about the conversion of all. Without a central authority in the Church, there would be chaos (as there is in Protestantism).

[Aquinasfan]

This group got some publicity so you have all the liberal wingnuts coming out.

OK, I feel a little bit better now.

[NYer]

Looks to me, after living here my whole life and knowing the WHOLE history of this little affair, that the Poles were in violation of Canon Law for over 100 years - through Kain, Glennon, Ritter, Carberry, May and Rigali (archbishops) - and Burke tried to correct it. These people are incredibly hard-headed.

Thanks, Desdemona, for posting your personal experience on this matter.

There was a similar experience in my parish (dating back to before I joined it). When they lost their pastor, the Parish Council took control of the Church and its finances. With no priestly salary to pay (a RC diocesan priest came once each week to say the Latin Mass), monies collected were spent by the PC for parish parties. Two years later, a new Eparchial priest was assigned. The Church was in a physical state of disrepair. Upon closer examination, the priest discovered that Church properties had been sold, clerical garments given away and other items missing from the Sacristy. After reviewing the financial situation, he advised the PC that he had been permanently assigned to Administer the parish and would be taking charge of all finances. Some members of the Parish Council resented his 'intrusion', called him every name in the book and left.

Ultimately, this all boils down to obedience. Look for more of this in those dioceses where the bishops have enacted Lay Ecclesial Ministers. It's a power trip!

[Ravens70]

" Sorry, most people here outside the St. L Post-Disgrace and other media, really don't care. They brought it on themselves."

Here in springfield, Mark is being called "maverick". St. Agnes folks really like the guy, but don't know about "behavioral" issues being alleged from his Polish seminary days..at a Xmas party for st. agnes teachers thursday nite the topic came up and rather than argue the point i asked them to tell me how they arrived at their conclusions ..."he's a nice guy and feels he is doing the right thing"...my answer: so did Martin Luther. I told them to read all the documents at the diocesan web site in st. louis regarding the charter by-law changes and the real reason the parish priest left (the liquor license issue) and then see if they could be intellectually honest and come to the same conclusion...By the way, where is the ACLU regarding use of city firetrucks at an obviously religious function???

[A.A. Cunningham]

This is NOT a slam on the parishioner's of Catholism(sic)

Don't kid yourself. "This" most certainly is a slam. An ignorant one at that.

Every church needs to pay close attention to the first chapters of Revelation

Ah yes, Revelation, The Apocalypse of St. John. You seem to have skipped those parts describing the Catholic Mass; the altar, "Holy, Holy, Holy", incense, vestments, the Eucharist, prayers of the saints in heaven, the Lamb of God, et al contained within.

WAKE UP!

Yes, indeed, you should.

[Cavalcabo]

"I really wish good Catholics would wake up and realize [that] on their current course they're just inviting trouble into their midst.

"This tradition of Pope's [sic], the imperiacal [sic] structure of the church, the liberal [?] bent toward God's word is [sic] not what God intended things to be like [sic]. Of course most Catholics [that] I know would have no idea about these things because they rely on a relationship with their preists [sic] to tell them what God thinks instead of THEMSELVES going right to the source.

"This is NOT a slam on the parishioner's [sic] of Catholism [sic] as unholy or Godless, but more a rebuke of the laziness and dishonest accessments [sic] one takes to search scripture for answers. When God says, "Seek and you shall find," [H]e's just not referring to Himself, [H]e's also saying [that] to know the Truth, YOU have to seek the Truth. If you're relying on someone else to tell you what God thinks, you're being irresponsible to his charge....Every church needs to pay close attention to the first chapters of Revelation, because they are not only a warning to past churches, but [also to] churhes [sic] right now, today! WAKE UP!

"The veil is rent!!!"

Before you suggest that your interpretation of Scripture holds more weight than the interpretation of the Church, the culmination of 2000 years of scholarship, you should try to master spelling and grammar.

[BlackElk]

dsc: Speaking of lipstick on pigs, aren't you also somewhat sympathetic to the ecclesiastical crime syndicate known as SSPX????

Did this excommunicated Polish priest have some sort of "emergency" too????? Unless he took over as pastor without faculties in the archdiocese, there would be no more cash bar on premises for the parents to get soused while their kids were being brainwashed at whatever passes for CCD at St. Stanislaus Revolutionary??????

[fishbabe]

I find it odd,that the bishops are quick to excommunicate the right,but when lib catholics go off and murder blacks in abortion,commit genocide against all minorties the bishops are just so ho-hum...

[I Believe It's Not Butter]

***Looks to me, after living here my whole life and knowing the WHOLE history of this little affair, that the Poles were in violation of Canon Law for over 100 years***

All that you know is nowhere near "the WHOLE history".

What Burke tried was not to "correct" anything, but grab more power for himself. The irony of the situation is that the assets of St. Stanislaus parish are much safer for the next generations of Catholics in the hands of the lay board than they would be in the hands of Burke. And a second part of the irony is that if the property was turned over to the diocese it would legally become personal property at the disposal of the bishop alone, but as long as it is run by the board of trustees it cannot be legally used for personal financial gain of any of the individual members.

And... the Poles couldn't be in violation of Canon Law for over 100 years because the Canon Law was first promulgated in 1917, and then fundamentally revised, to what Burke "quotes", in 1983. So, we are talking about 22 years compared to 125 years of the parish's history. There are canons in it, omitted by Burke, that say he is dead wrong.

If he doesn't wanna be a bishop to these people, then he doesn't have to. It's a free country.