Thank you very much for following up. I think we were last talking on this thread about the Catholic belief concerning the permanency of salvation. I gathered from you that Catholics believe that salvation, once truly gained, is subject to being lost depending on a person's status in forgiveness/repentance.
I still do have a couple of questions. One is that since the Holy Spirit indwells us at initial salvation (or baptism?), what happens to the Spirit when a person later becomes unsaved? Wouldn't the Spirit have to leave during that time? Are you aware of any verses concerning this? Also, (if the Spirit stays) what happens to the Spirit when a previously saved person dies who is not contrite and who is not in a state of forgiveness or repentance? It just seems odd to me that the Spirit could be "defeated" that way.
Second, you mentioned the idea that a person in need of confession, but who dies nevertheless before access to a priest, can still be saved if he was contrite. You noted the thief beside Jesus as an example. I was wondering about the many people who suffer tremendous tragedy, and may turn away from God for a time out of grief. They may commit mortal sin but because of their altered and temporary mental state are not contrite and do not ask forgiveness. Some of these die before recovering. What is their status and is there any scripture on this point?
Finally, I half-jokingly said that it would seem impossible for a non-Catholic to live up to the conditions for permanent salvation that you had listed (keeping the Commandments, Catholic baptism, forgiveness of sins by a priest [plus a contrite heart at death absent a priest], taking Catholic communion, etc.). With a smile, I asked "What chance does little ole' me have for eternal life?"
Thanks again for checking back and I really hope you ACED all your exams. :)
This is a good question. It can be a little confusing because when the Bible speaks of people losing salvation due to their sins, it is usually portrayed as people rejecting Christ, rejecting Christ's laws and love, or rejecting God the Father. However, the Holy Spirit is God, just as the Son and Father are God. To reject Christ is to reject the Spirit and the Father, to reject the Spirit is to reject Christ and the Father, to reject the Father is to reject Christ and the Spirit.
There are some verses that pertain to the rejection of the Holy Spirit specifically. In Mark 3:29, Christ warns us against blaspheming the Spirit and the eternal consequences that follow it. Hebrews 10:29 also warns against insulting the Spirit. 1 Thessalonian says we can reject the Spirit (4:8) and also that we can quench the Spirit (5:19) although this is not recommended, to say the least! Ephesians 4:30 speaks of grieving the Spirit.
But doing all these things is the same as rejecting, grieving, insulting, etc Christ and the Father - for God is one. It seems to me that when you ask how the Spirit can be defeated (through the damnation of a person who once had faith in Christ) you're also asking how God can be defeated. Where does the Spirit go while such a person is in a state of unrepentant sin? The same place Christ goes, the same place the Father goes.
On one hand Christ speaks of those who do not abide in His love being cut off and cast away like a dead branch (John 15:6) We abide in Christ's love when we keep His commandments (John 15:10). Breaking His commandments (i.e., sin) cuts us off from His love. If we are in this state when we die, then this is a permanent cutting off.
At the same time God is all-powerful and all-present so it's not as if He disappears for good, and it certainly is not the case that mere humans like us can negate His power. The parable of the Good Shepherd is very relevant here. The lost sheep is "cut off" from Christ in one sense. Yet Christ is still there and He still pursues the sheep and does all He can to bring it back into the fold. So while the sheep is running away from Christ, Christ is not running away from the sheep.
Furthermore, the Bible and every day life are replete with examples of people who initially come to Christ, later reject Christ (sometimes quite flagrantly) yet eventually are reconciled to Christ again. In one sense they do not abide in Christ while they are in a state of sin and rebellion. Yet God is still present in their lives because eventually some of these folks repent and are reconciled to Christ. No one can come back to God without God's grace - so this has to have been present even while the person was in a state of sin. The person can reject grace but it's always there. God desires all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4) so He will never cease offering His grace to any of us, which would make salvation impossible. So God is always there and not "defeated" by our obstinacy
I was wondering about the many people who suffer tremendous tragedy, and may turn away from God for a time out of grief. They may commit mortal sin but because of their altered and temporary mental state are not contrite and do not ask forgiveness. Some of these die before recovering. What is their status and is there any scripture on this point?
I would imagine and hope that God is merciful towards such people. Catholics believe that to go to Hell, one has to willfully and knowingly sin and willfully refuse to repent. People who are in altered mental states probably cannot make these kinds of willful decisions. If one is, for example, so overcome with grief that he goes mad and in his madness rejects God, he's not as culpable as someone who purposefully rejects God. How God deals with such people, how He applies both justice and mercy is something best left up to Him. Only God can truly know the state of that person's soul, how willful the choices the person made were, and such. These things are terribly difficult for third parties such as ourselves to discern. This is why we should refrain from despairing that such people are damned and pray for them always.
Finally, I half-jokingly said that it would seem impossible for a non-Catholic to live up to the conditions for permanent salvation that you had listed (keeping the Commandments, Catholic baptism, forgiveness of sins by a priest [plus a contrite heart at death absent a priest], taking Catholic communion, etc.). With a smile, I asked "What chance does little ole' me have for eternal life?"
Well I don't see anything impossible with the idea that a non-Catholic could make an act of perfect contrition before he or she dies and be saved. As for the other conditions, I guess the question here is: is it a sin for non-Catholics to not go to Confession and receive Communion? In other words, is it a sin to not be Catholic? We do believe that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded and it has the fullness of the truth (and really, why be Catholic if we thought other religions were just as good?) In some cases it would be a mortal sin for someone to reject the Catholic Church.
However as I touched on above, we also do not believe God would damn someone for sins unless that person willfully chose to do those sins and willfully chose not to seek forgiveness. I do not think there are very many people in the world who are not Catholic, know they should be Catholic, and remain in this state willfully. Many people have never heard of the Catholic Church or even Jesus for one thing. Even more people have heard of the Church but know little about it much less the need to be in it. Some people think they know what the Church teaches and reject it, but are in fact in ignorance of what the Church really teaches. Some people are raised in harsh anti-Catholic environments and may never be able to overcome a psychological barrier they have towards looking at the Church with anything but hatred (I had a great-grandmother like this). Some people are only exposed to nominal Catholics - people who call themselves Catholic but know little about their faith and act like pagans (e.g. John Kerry).
There are so many people who are probably, as we say "innocently ignorant" of the need to be Catholic. They reject Catholicism, but this is not a willful or informed choice. We do not believe God will hold such people responsible for not being Catholic. Such people, through the grace of God, can still be saved. Many surely are.
Now whether you or anyone else falls into the category of "innocently ignorant" is not a call I will even attempt to make. That's something only God can know. I pray that all people will be part of the Church someday and I try to answer questions and clear up misconceptions other people may have about the Church. But I'm not going to tell someone they are going to Hell because they aren't Catholic. If a non-Catholic is wondering if he or she should become Catholic and is concerned that his or her remaining outside the Catholic Church has become a sin, then that is something they need to take up with God.
I hope this helps answer your questions. Thank you for your kind wishes about the end of the semester!