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To: kosta50; Agrarian; Kolokotronis
Dear brother in Christ,

I can find something to dislike about every Orthodox church I have been to a few times. Yes, even Sameba, because there was no bathroom available for several blocks. My strongest preference would be for God to transplant one of the lovely ancient churches from Tbilisi to a neighborhood within walking distance of my home. :-)
But, darn it, He just hasn't done that for me yet! I think my chances are slim at this time.

I do understand your frustration, as I have felt a similar one about the "Americanized version" of Orthodoxy. Then, too, I could tell you what I do like about the Americanized version of the Orthodox faith, as opposed to some of the very ethnic parishes I have been a part of.
I wonder if you have seen this writing for converts?
It is a writing that has been helpful to me at times.

Kosta, it was a Popodija who said to me that what comes out of our mouths is more important than what we put in.

I hope the coming Nativity of our Lord is a joyful one for all of you!

165 posted on 12/17/2005 2:20:08 AM PST by MarMema (http://www.curenikolette.org/)
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To: MarMema

Wonderful link, Marmema.


166 posted on 12/17/2005 4:24:39 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: MarMema; Kolokotronis; Agrarian
My dear Marmema, thank you so much for that wonderful link. I would like to add one more "Pitfall" to it: the pitfall of cutting corners, the pitfall of brevity. A day has only 24 hours and often what we have to say would fill up the entire day. It is simply impossible to say everything in a short and concise way and be perfectly understood. We are, after all, just human.

However, Agrarian will remember that I once hinted that to fail is not in itself a sin as it is if it is not an honest failure. So, when I fail to observe the fast as I would like to, it is my own conflict, but I would never serve milk to Orthodox Christians with their coffee during fast. If they asked for it, I would give it to them without judgment, understanding that we are all weak and sinful.

My point was that the priest allows bagels and cheese and eggs and milk and so on, and even partakes in the same himself! It is the intention that counts. To honestly try and to honestly fail, admitting our ingratitude and weakness and agonizing over it is one thing; to engage in breaking the fast or ignoring the fast or willingly "modifying" the fast is an altogether different phenomenon.

It is indeed "Protestant" to the core! For the teaching and the Liturgy are Orthodox, but the praxis is not! If you ever listen to the Protestant preachers and ministers, their message rings very much as ours do. But they never put that pride away; they only like the soothing message, but do not live by it (generally speaking). So, when you see the same thing among the Orthodox of American extraction you see the mirror image of their Protestant past -- they talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk (generally speaking).

We are all sinners, but there is a difference how we approach our sin. Do we apply "pecca fortiter" of Luther's persuasion and sin boldly, or do we wrestle with our own weakness and lack of faith and, above all, love for God.

If I had to put it as succintly as possible, I would say that they fail to live the faith. Instead, they bend and modify the faith to fit the society, so that they don't have to give up anything, not even for God!

167 posted on 12/17/2005 6:30:37 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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