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To: Kolokotronis
It goes to the very heart of our understanding of the inner workings of the Trinity.

The "inner workings of the Trinity" is quite far beyond us general Anglican laity, K. (And I fear I might speaking as one a wee bit more educated than most, but only a wee bit. Would you explain, please?)

14 posted on 12/10/2005 6:18:15 PM PST by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || To Libs: You are failing to celebrate MY diversity! || Iran Azadi)
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To: sionnsar

"The "inner workings of the Trinity" is quite far beyond us general Anglican laity, K. (And I fear I might speaking as one a wee bit more educated than most, but only a wee bit. Would you explain, please?)"

Sigh! OK. Here is the classical Orthodox explanation of the Trinity as set forth in the Epistle of +Photios the Great to the Eastern Patriarchs in response to Rome's insertion of the filioque in the Creed:

"They attempted by their false opinions and distorted words to ruin the holy and sacred Nicene Symbol of Faith — which by both synodal and universal decisions possesses invincible power — by adding to it that the Holy Spirit proceeds not only from the Father, as the Symbol declares, but from the Son also. Until now, no one has ever heard even a heretic pronounce such a teaching. What Christian can accept the introduction of two sources into the Holy Trinity; that is, that the Father is one source of the Son and the Holy Spirit, and that the Son is another source of the Holy Spirit, thereby transforming the monarchy of the Holy Trinity into a dual divinity?

And why should the Holy Spirit proceed from the Son as well as from the Father? For if His procession from the Father is perfect and complete — and it is perfect because He is perfect God from perfect God — then why is there also a procession from the Son? The Son, moreover, cannot serve as an intermediary between the Father and the Spirit because the Spirit is not a property of the Son. If two principles, two sources, exist in the divinity, then the unity of the divinity would be destroyed. If the Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, His procession from the Father alone would of necessity be either perfect or imperfect. If it is imperfect, then procession for two hypostases would be much more contrived and less perfect than procession from one hypostasis alone. If it is not imperfect, then why would it be necessary for the Spirit to also proceed from the Son?

If the Son participates in the quality or property of the Father's own hypostasis, then the Son and the Spirit lose their own personal distinctions. Here one falls into semi-Sabellianism. The proposition that in the divinity there exist two principles, one which is independent and the other which receives its origin from the first, destroys the very root of the Christian conception of God. It would be much more consistent to expound these two principles into three, for this would be more in keeping with the human understanding of the Holy Trinity.

But since the Father is the principle and source, not because of the nature of the divinity, but because of the property of the hypostasis (and the hypostasis of the Father does not include the hypostasis of the Son), the Son cannot be a principle or source. The Filioque actually divides the hypostasis of the Father into two parts, or else the hypostasis of the Son becomes a part of the hypostasis of the Father. By the Filioque teaching, the Holy Spirit is two degrees or steps removed from the Father, and thus has a much lower rank than the Son. If the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son also, then of the three Divine Hypostases, the Holy Spirit alone has more than one origin or principle.

By the teaching of the procession from the Son also, the Father and the Son are made closer to each other than the Father and the Spirit, since the Son possesses not only the Father's nature but also the property of His Person. The procession of the Spirit from the Son is either the same as that from the Father, or else it is different, in which case there exists an opposition in the Holy Trinity. A dual procession cannot be reconciled with the principle that what is not common to the three hypostases belongs exclusively to only one of the three hypostases. If the Spirit proceeds also from the Son, why then would something not proceed from the Spirit, so that the balance between the Divine Hypostases would therefore be maintained?

By the teaching that the Spirit also proceeds from the Son, the Father appears partial towards the Son. The Father is either a greater source of the Spirit than the Son, or a lesser source. If greater, the dignity of the Son is offended; if lesser, the dignity of the Father is offended. The Latins make the Son greater than the Spirit, for they consider Him a principle, irreverently placing Him closer to the Father. By introducing a dual principle into the Holy Trinity as they do, the Latins offend the Son, for by making Him a source of that which already has a source, they thus render Him unnecessary as a source. They also divide the Holy Spirit into two parts: one part from the Father and one part from the Son. In the Holy Trinity, which is united in an indivisible unity, all three hypostases are inviolable. But if the Son contributes to the procession of the Spirit, Sonship is then injured, and the hypostatic property damaged.

If, by the begetting of the Son, the power was thereby given to the Son that the Holy Spirit would proceed from Him, then how would His Sonship itself not be destroyed when He, Who Himself has a source, became a source of Another Who is equal to Him and is of the same nature as He? According to the Filioque teaching, it is impossible to see why the Holy Spirit could not be called a granson! If the Father is the source of the Son, who is the second source of the Spirit, then the Father is both immediate and the mediated source of the Holy Spirit! A dual source in the divinity inescapably concludes in a dual result; therefore, the hypostasis of the Spirit must be dual. Therefore, the teaching of the Filioque introduces into the divinity two principles, a dyarchy, which destroys the unity of the divinity, the monarchy of the Father."

Now read this for the history of the controversy and present status of the filioque: http://www.scoba.us/resources/filioque-p02.asp


15 posted on 12/10/2005 6:44:37 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: sionnsar; Kolokotronis
The problem with the "and the Son" (i.e. the filioque) is that the Holy Spirit is treated as the "loving bond" between the Father and the Son (Catholic explanation). That surely places the Holy Spirit in a secondary position relative to the other two Hypostases, which is not what the Church ever taught.

God is one, but He is not alone. God is a loving communion between the three Hypostases, each of Whom has a separate and distinct but also co-substantial role in the Divine Economy (of our salvation).

God is not just the Father, but the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all one and the same God. Wisdom, Word and Spirit of God. We cannot worship one but not the other; we are not limited to worshiping the Father through the Son, or the Son through the Spirit or the Spirit through the Father, and so on. God is worshiped by saying "God" or "Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

18 posted on 12/10/2005 9:25:22 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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