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To: Ronaldus Magnus

"Nice list of out of context verses, but none of them addresses my earlier point that even though these figurative generalizations don't explicitly exempt Mary, they don't exempt Christ either."

Highly dishonest. You know very well that the Bible, being the product of the Holy Spirit, speaks with a unified voice. If the Bible clearly teaches that "all have sinned" AND that "Jesus did not sin" then everyone but Jesus has sinned.



" Again, more legalistic over focus on sin."

The passage is TALKING ABOUT SIN.



"The false claim that Mary had to have sinned because your earlier verses overgeneralized that everyone sinned is invalidated because of they also didn't exempt Christ."

The Biblical witness is that all have sinned and Christ is the only excpetion.


"and can't be used to rationally prove that Mary ever sinned."

If it was important that Mary had not sinned, the Biblical authors would have gone out of their way to note that she was an exception. They did so numerous times with Jesus. The NEVER did so for Mary.


Making Mary sinless, a mediatrix, immaculately concieved, the channel of all grace, etc. is a direct attack on the uniqueness of Jesus Christ.


178 posted on 12/10/2005 11:40:34 AM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Highly dishonest.

I am not a liar, and the fact that you would make this unfounded accusation when you are shown to be wrong says something very poor about you.

You know very well that the Bible, being the product of the Holy Spirit,

And by the councils of the one holy and apostalic Catholic Church!

speaks with a unified voice.

That does not mean that every verse can be taken out of context and misinterpreted to serve your own ends. Not everything in the bible is literal.

If the Bible clearly teaches that "all have sinned" AND that "Jesus did not sin" then everyone but Jesus has sinned.

If the bible or any other text states that "all have sinned" without specifically excluding someone like Christ who didn't sin, than that particular generalization is either figurative or misapplied and can not be taken literally.

The passage is TALKING ABOUT SIN.

No dear, the passage mentions sin only in the greater context of salvation. It's easy to miss the bigger picture when you take things out of context to serve your own ends.

The Biblical witness is that all have sinned and Christ is the only excpetion.

But it doesn't say this in the bible. Only by picking and choosing verses out of context can you come to such a extra-biblical conclusion.

If it was important that Mary had not sinned, the Biblical authors would have gone out of their way to note that she was an exception. They did so numerous times with Jesus. The NEVER did so for Mary.

If Sola Sriptura was important, surely the biblical authors would have gone out of their way to note that, wouldn't they? Nowhere does the bible say that the bible is the sole source of divine revalation, and no where does the bible say that Mary ever sinned.

Making Mary sinless, a mediatrix, immaculately concieved, the channel of all grace, etc. is a direct attack on the uniqueness of Jesus Christ.

All grace comes from Jesus Christ, and Mary is His mother. Jesus was fully God, but he was also fully man. There is no worse way to attack any man than to insult his mother.

179 posted on 12/10/2005 1:20:56 PM PST by Ronaldus Magnus
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