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To: P-Marlowe
Lately there have been a number of Catholics who have come on and taken the side of the Arminians.

This is a good example of how you read things your own way with little attention to what the person posting actually said. Annalex said that we Catholics consider the Arminius-Calvin debate to be an internal matter between Reformed Protestants. I think that's a correct statement.

However, can you give me an example of a Catholic poster defending Arminius? Or were they defending free will from a Catholic perspective? In your narrow little Reformed world (which I grew up in) anyone who believes in free will is labeled an Arminian. I remember being puzzled by that when I first encountered Anabaptist theology. Here were people who believed in free will who were active long before Arminius but were called "Arminians." I eventually caught on to the trick.

When we Catholics defend free will we are not defending Arminius or Arminianism. We could care less about Arminius. We leave that quarrel to you guys. But you spread your excoriating term of choice, "Arminian" over us, which is a very self-centered, arrogant thing to do.

It's this parochial vision you exhibit, this narrow world you inhabit in which nothing can make sense unless it is crammed through your Reformed sieve that exasperates us.

Now, pony up. Where have Catholic posters defended Arminius or Arminianism as distinct from defending the doctrine of free taught by all the Fathers of the Church, including Augustine?

59 posted on 12/05/2005 4:49:44 PM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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No offense intended Dion, but this is a post that has me laughing uncontrollably.


62 posted on 12/05/2005 5:24:01 PM PST by suzyjaruki ("What do you seek?")
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis
Now, pony up. Where have Catholic posters defended Arminius or Arminianism as distinct from defending the doctrine of free taught by all the Fathers of the Church, including Augustine?

I don't believe I said that they were defending Arminianism. Instead they generally come in on the side of the Arminians and basically attack Calvinism. But it seems that Catholics do not like Calvinism for wholly different reasons than Arminians don't like Calvinism.

FWIW I don't believe Augustine was a free willer. From what I have read he seemed to preach a predestination that was very close to Calvinism.

67 posted on 12/05/2005 6:30:49 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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