The History of the Reformation…Rome and Romans (Part 7)

Arlington Presbyterian Church ^ | December 12, 2004 | Tom Browning

[HarleyD]

Previous Sermons…

The History of the Reformation-How Christ restored the gospel to his church (Part 1)

The History of the Reformation…The Goose That Became a Swan…John Huss (Part 2)

The History of the Reformation… The Morning Star of the Reformation… John Wycliffe (Part 3)

The History of the Reformation…De Haeretico Comburendo… The Lollards (Part 4)

The History of the Reformation...The Little Red Bible Chained to the Wall (Part 5)

The History of the Reformation…The Cowl (Part 6)

For the history from the Roman Catholic perspective I would recommend the following posts:

THE ROOTS OF THE REFORMATION (Part 1) BY KARL ADAM

[HarleyD]

History ping.

[ksen]

Thanks Harley, I'm just seeing these. Wow, they look wonderful!

Thanks for posting them.

[InterestedQuestioner]

Another piece written at a third grade level.

You've been struggling mightily against the Catholic Faith, HarleyD. I cannot remember the last time that I logged onto Free Republic that you were not posting something against the Catholic Faith. What's the deal Harley?

It would seem to me that if you really believed in your own religion, you would not be so obsessed with Catholicism--and with an attempt to portray it in the worst possible light.

[alpha-8-25-02]

REFORMED PING!

[HarleyD]

"Another piece written at a third grade level."

You may wish to contact the author.

I cannot remember the last time that I logged onto Free Republic that you were not posting something against the Catholic Faith. What's the deal Harley?

In the spirit of "fairness" and "ecumenicalism" I have included the Catholic version in my links. People have spent a great deal of time complaining what a hateful person I am and how I must hate the Catholic Faith by posting such a corrupt view of history. Yet I haven't seen any substantive denial of what this gentleman is saying.

[InterestedQuestioner]

["Another piece written at a third grade level."]

"You may wish to contact the author."

Why would I do that? You're the one who posted it.

"People have spent a great deal of time complaining what a hateful person I am and how I must hate the Catholic Faith by posting such a corrupt view of history."

Show me where people complain about what a hateful person you are. Threads and post numbers, please Harley.

I don't remember the last time I logged onto FR, and you were not posting material against the Catholic Faith. Go look at your posting record, it details an obsession with the Catholic Faith. What's the deal Harley?

"Yet I haven't seen any substantive denial of what this gentleman is saying."

Sure you have.

Here's one that I haven't seen, HarleyD. Your author claims that Jan Hess was divinely inspired, and it claims that Martin Luther was the Messianic fulfillment of Hess' prophecy. Do you believe that, HarleyD?

[bonfire]

Harley, by posting the history of the Reformation you have enlightened those that really knew nothing about it. Seems you've made some people uncomfortable with the truth. Ultimately, I would hope these threads would educate and promote understanding on the how's and why's of that time period. One can hope, can't they?? :)

[InterestedQuestioner]

"In the spirit of "fairness" and "ecumenicalism" I have included the Catholic version in my links."

You missed this one. Here you go:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1534141/posts

[InterestedQuestioner]

"Harley, by posting the history of the Reformation you have enlightened those that really knew nothing about it."

LOl. Are these links written at a 3rd grade level and full of errors enlightening for you, bonfire?

[gbcdoj]

I've got to be off, but one quick point:

Venial sin was not thought of as causing the loss of some justifying grace, as the author of this piece mistakenly says: "venial sin is a hindrance to actual comeliness, but not to habitual comeliness, because it neither destroys nor diminishes the habit of charity and of the other virtues, as we shall show further on, but only hinders their acts" (St. Thomas, I-II q. 89 a. 1) "venial sin is not contrary to habitual grace or charity, but hampers its act, through man being too much attached to a created good, albeit not in opposition to God" (III q. 87 a. 2).

[bonfire]

I was hoping they would be enlightening for YOU, IQ!

[InterestedQuestioner]

"medieval Catholics viewed justification like this....At Baptism A Man Stands Fully Justified."

As opposed to what? Being partially justified at Baptism??

[InterestedQuestioner]

"I was hoping they would be enlightening for YOU, IQ!"

I see, you feel that these posts have been enlightening. So you feel that Martin Luther was the Messianic fulfillment of Jan Huss's divinely inspired prophecy? And does that make the writing of Huss Scriptural for you?

[Conservative til I die]

Can't wait to see the flame fly on this one! I'll have to check this one out later tonight.

[bonfire]

Well, it happened didn't it? Scriptural? no. Uncanny? yes! Maybe he should become SAINT Huss?

[Cheverus]

You're wasting your time talking with HarleyD, he has an agenda. I tried to have a normal interaction with him regarding a Lutheran Pastor leaving the ELCA and he kept wandering off into school yard antics attacking the Catholic Church when realistically the question as to why the gentleman left the ELCA was at issue rather than where he went.

You can't reason with bigots.

[Campion]

Each step gained for the faithful pilgrim and indulgence of 9 years…that is, it removed nine years from a person’s stay in purgatory.

This is false. The "years" or "days" associated with indulgences were years or days of "canonical penance". "Canonical penance" was a pentential practice in the early church that involved a temporary excommunication and a mild sort of "shunning".

The Catholic Church has never defined any dogma concerning the passage of time in purgatory.

At least your author, in this post, manages to distinguish between indulgences and temporal punishment, on the one hand, and confession, justification, and eternal punishment, on the other.

This is still polemic, not history. (Ministers write polemic. Historians write history.)

[wmfights]

Thanks for the posting. I am enjoying/learning a great deal.

[wmfights]

"You can't reason with bigots."
________________________________________

Adding a lot to the discussion?

Why is it if someone dares to post something that might not cast the RCC in the best light they immediately are denigrated. Is your faith so weak it can't stand in the light of the day?