[Forest Keeper]

Thank you for your sincere answer. If you are willing, I'd like to learn more about the general theology.

It is the actual physical body and blood of Jesus Christ to us.

Since I am a Southern Baptist, I am to adhere to the Baptist Faith and Message, which says on this subject:

"The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming."

I think our interpretation has much to do with Luke 22:19-20:

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

In fact, on the face of our own church's altar, before which the Supper is administered, it is literally chiseled "Do This In Remembrance Of Me". I understand "our" argument that Jesus was instituting a fundamental and extremely important remembrance through symbolism. The Bible is replete with symbols and reminders for us. He knows how dumb we are, and He's right! :) I suppose I just don't understand the "level" of literalness that Catholics believe, since no credible person argues that the disciples actually ate of His flesh and drank of His blood. The passage does not support that at all anyway, they were breaking bread.

This is not intended as a "we are better than you are" measure. Rather it is intended to ensure that those taking the sacrament do not do so unworthily and thereby bring judgment upon themselves. Scripture expressly warns that taking the body and blood unworthily can be to your judgment.

We also urge caution to the extent that nonbelievers should not take the Lord's Supper in our church. I don't know those verses, but I would imagine that our respective churches would quote similar scripture. I wonder if there is a difference for a hypocrite vs. an unknowing violator.

[Kolokotronis]

"I suppose I just don't understand the "level" of literalness that Catholics believe, since no credible person argues that the disciples actually ate of His flesh and drank of His blood."

300,000,000 Orthodox Christians believe exactly that, as did all Christians until the Reformation.

[Claud]

I suppose I just don't understand the "level" of literalness that Catholics believe, since no credible person argues that the disciples actually ate of His flesh and drank of His blood.

I think Forest Keeper means (correct if I'm wrong) that no person standing there while Christ spoke at John 6, bit off a bit of His flesh and drank his blood. In which case he'd be correct. :)

[lugsoul]

I should also point out that it is considered a 'mortal sin' to knowingly take the Catholic communion when you are not a part of the Catholic faith.

As one in an interfaith marriage to a Catholic, I will not say I don't have a problem with the determination of the Church that a confirmed and baptized Protestant like myself is not allowed to participate in the sacrament in their Church because I don't share their beliefs about the nature of the host. I know many Catholics who do not literally believe in transsubstantiation, who even state openly that they do not, but the Church does not bar them from the sacrament.

I do respect the wishes of the Church, in that I do not take communion in their Church. But I do not think many in the Church would be pleased to hear the answer I have for my daughter when she, inevitably, asks why I am not taking communion.

[sassbox]

Hi Forest Keeper

The Catholic belief about the Eucharist being the true body and blood of Christ is grounded both in passage from Luke 22 you mentioned, but also from the 6th chapter of John, especially verses 22 through the end of the chapter.

Jesus tells his disciples that "Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day; for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. Those who eat my fleshy and drink my blood abide in me and I in them." (John 6:53-56).

As is written in John, this teaching caused great consternation among some of Christ's followers: "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" (6:52) "This teaching is difficult, who can accept it?" (6:60) and many disciples were so offended by this that they left Jesus (6:66).

When Christ hears these complaints he does not say anything to the effect of "hey wait, come back, I'm only speaking symbolically." Instead he reiterates that one must eat (the Greek word used here actually means "gnaw") his flesh and drink his blood to be saved.

Now at this point in Christ's ministry it is not yet clear exactly how He will give us His flesh and blood - but at the Last Supper this is made clear and the Eucharist is instituted. Catholics believe the Last Supper was the first Mass, and at Mass the words of Christ from the Last Supper are used for consecrating the Eucharist.

Once consecrated, the Eucharist is no longer bread and wine, but the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Our Lord. Really, truly, literally. Of course this is really hard to wrap one's mind around, but that is where faith comes in. God is God and we are not, and we cannot fully understand His ways, why He does what He does and how He does it. We cannot fully understand just how the Trinity works, how God can be one God yet exist in three distinct persons. We cannot fully understand how Christ could be both truly God and truly human. Yet we believe these things. There are many paradoxes in Christian belief, and the Eucharist is just one of them.

Suffice it to say, all things are possible with God. Like the disciples we are sometimes offended and confused by Christ's words. Yet like the disciples we must say "Lord to whom can we go? You have the words of eternal life." (John 6:68)

[PAR35]

To expound on the nature of the elements, between the Roman Catholic view and the Baptist view, there are two additional positions. The Lutheran view is quite close to the RC view. It holds that the body and blood are really physically present, without the bread and wine losing their identity as such. The Reformed view is that there is a real, but spiritual rather than physical, presence in the bread and wine or grape juice.