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To: starfish923; Kolokotronis; Agrarian
I am afraid that our Orthodox brothers are correct. Although from the Catholic side there is no objection to members of the Orthodox churches to receive Communion at a Catholic church, the Orthodox have as yet given permission to their members. (There may be an exception to this among the churches in the Middle East.) It should also be noted that Catholics are not, by our own law, completely free to receive Communion at Orthodox churches but may do so only in extreme circumstances:
Canon 844, §2. Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid.
Thus as a Catholic you could not just go down the street to the local Orthodox church and decide to receive Communion. Full intercommunion between us is something that we should all pray for but it has not yet arrived.

Question to Kolokotronis and Agrarian: What would the Orthodox position be when there is the danger of death and a Catholic or Orthodox person could not approach his own priest?

27 posted on 12/03/2005 6:37:53 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius; starfish923; Agrarian

"Question to Kolokotronis and Agrarian: What would the Orthodox position be when there is the danger of death and a Catholic or Orthodox person could not approach his own priest?"

I have always been taught (indeed my own Metropolitan has told me this) that it is appropriate in extremis to receive the sacraments (annointing, confession, the Eucharist) from a Roman Catholic priest in the absence of an Orthodox priest. I certainly wouldn't hesitate for a second if it were me or a member of my family. Along the same lines, I have been instructed to attend Roman Catholic Mass on Sundays (but not to present myself for communion) if I am in a country where there are no Orthodox or Eastern Rite Catholic Churches available (and of course in Lebanon a whole different set of wink and nod rules apply as you pointed out). I should add that there are those in Orthodoxy who would hold that this is an impermissable violation of certain canons to which I would reply, and have, that economia is the province of my Metropolitan.


28 posted on 12/03/2005 6:51:11 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Petrosius

As K points out in his reply, this is the realm of economia, and economia is the domain of one's bishop. Here in America, the question is mostly a theoretical one, since almost any Catholic or Orthodox Christian who is dying can usually get a priest of his church to his bedside.

Within the Serbian/Russian world that I have spent the vast majority of my time as an Orthodox Christian, the answer would be different from that which K gives.

I have been taught that preparation for death is the work of a lifetime, and that God doesn't look at the closing hours of our life and say "well, he didn't go to confession or communion right before dying, and didn't have Holy Unction in his last hour... so he's toast."

My understanding of what I have been taught is that the economia involved for me if I find myself dying without an Orthodox priest available is that I will be given the same grace as though an Orthodox priest had been present. I would not confess to a Catholic priest or receive communion from him in extremis, but if one was present, I would certainly be grateful if he held my hand and prayed for and with me as I died. I would make my confession to God, and put my trust in his mercy. Communion is the expression of complete unity of faith -- the fact that I am dying doesn't suddenly make me to be in complete unity of faith with a Catholic priest I have never met who happens to be in the neighborhood. Again, this is not so much akrevia vs. economia as it is two different views of what economia is all about.

On a thread some time ago, I described what I experienced in our parish with the death of a saintly old woman -- the Akathists at the bedside, the Unction service, the daily communion during the last week, the immediate bedside Pannikhida after she breathed her last breath, the Pannikhida in the church, the all-night reading of the Psalter over her body, the funeral service in church, the graveside service, the series of Pannikhidas at the appointed times after the death. All of this is very comforting, beneficial, and beautiful, and I hope to have it when I die. But I don't for a minute think that if I have none of that that God won't equally have mercy on my soul and give me the grace to get through it. There is nothing magic about having or not having confession, unction, and communion in one's dying moments that will undo the spiritual labor, or lack thereof, of a lifetime.

I am not sure what guidelines Orthodox priests in our OCA diocese are given should they find themselves in an unusual situation, but I would think that they would be told not to commune a Roman Catholic, even in extremis -- but, to give comfort and to pray with them to the end. I don't know, though.

Neither approach to the economia of this theoretical situation is wrong. Both approaches have historical precedent and reasonable theological thought behind them. Interestingly, while the Slavic churches are strictest about this nowadays and the Greeks (in America, anyway) are the most broad-minded, a couple of centuries ago, exactly the opposite would have been the case. As we have discussed before, the attitude of a given local Orthodox Church varies depending on the circumstances in which it finds itself.

But again, how often does this actually happen? In my experience, it is sadly quite the opposite that happens with far too regular a frequency: "nominal" Orthodox and Catholics alike who have full access to the ministrations of their respective priests, but who don't bother to summon them.

It is always sad when the first an Orthodox priest learns of a death is when the family contacts him after the fact to do a burial or memorial service (worst of all is when they contact the priest after a cremation has already been performed on the body.) This is particularly sad when the deceased was somewhat devout but the non-devout family didn't care enough (or was too ignorant) to contact a priest. I suspect this happens in the Catholic world from time to time, as well.


31 posted on 12/03/2005 9:12:38 PM PST by Agrarian
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